Underdark denizens, and the surface

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Tyeslan
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Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Tyeslan » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:19 pm

I'm not sure if this should go in complaints, but I believe this is something that needs to be addressed.

I have noticed that a lot of the Underdark creatures, drows/deep gnomes, have suddenly taken home, or to spending a lot of hours on the surface. I have come across on numerous characters, various drow, and deep gnomes, on well lit, well known roads, near cities, in crowds, like they are humans, or apart of the surface world. To me that just seems a bit off. I understand that while sometimes there are needs, it seems like it would be more likely to employ a trader between the two worlds instead of breaking character, and racial habits.

Deep gnomes are suspicious by habit, they don't trust others easily, so venturing into an unknown world would be something that would be regarded as a huge thing to them, especially with that big flaming ball of light in the sky.

Drow tend to stick near the easy paths back to the dark after raids, and don't come to spend hours with others. It seems to me that taking off the blocks on the holes to the surface, has in turned opened up more, and more of the UD dwellers on the surface, simply because the UD lacks the interest that the surface has.

I do realize the you can take a feat for daylight adaptation, but this doesn't mean just because you have it, that you should stand on the surface all the time.

Is there something that can be done to limit time upon UD dwellers that come the surface? When surface dwellers venture below we take a huge hit to stamina, and the ability to travel, along with not being able to see if you are of a race that doesn't have DkV. It's not easy down there, and it would be the same in reverse.

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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Eechi » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:54 pm

As a drow player I would like to put a few words in here.

All underdark characters also have issues with traveling. At level 45(50) it takes me 30% stamina to move between rooms.

I can not speak for other players, but my character has only been to the surface 4 times. Once to participate in a tournament, once to visit Zhentil Keep and Westgate, once to drop off the corpse of a sacrifice and once as a raiding group which only took us to Howling Peak.

My character being a fighter, the majority of his skills are available in Underdark. But I do understand that wizards and priest/priestess need to make the trips in order to find some of their spells.

I also play surface characters very often and rarely run into any drow or deep gnomes. I think I have met one drow with my elf warrior in Howling Peak.

Perhaps it is an issue and I am unaware but from what I can see it doesn't seem to be all that bad.

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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Yemin » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:03 pm

Can't speak for your experience but I've personally not noticed drow hanging around in cities that would otherwise kick them out. I mostly play surface chars but have come across alot of drow but all in acceptable places and situations.

I'd mostly like to add that it should be taken into account that while the light of the surface is a hindrance to drow it certainly isn't the end of the world to the race if we're to stick true to the FR universe. As demonstrated by the activities of Bregandarthe or however you spell it in Luskan in the last few books of the drizzt series.

Can't speak for deep gnomes but honestly I've personally never been a fan of everyone being a carbon copy of their race help file and while there probably should be some recognizeable traits, i.e. xenophobia, roleplaying that through nonstandard ways is probably more interesting in the long run.
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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Benorf » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:48 pm

I think something important to remember also is IRL time vs. game time. Drow raid the surface every few weeks to every few months. That'd be one drow sighting per week. If we go by that, then the drow aren't nearly active enough. That being said...

I've never personally seen a drow in a location that I would not expect to encounter one. My elven sacrifice was captured immediately outside of an entrance to the underdark. The Howling peaks has an UD entrance as well. I don't think there is much of a problem. However, I do think that the scales have been shifting ever so slightly in the favor of evil, lately.
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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Tyeslan » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:47 am

I have in the last two weeks encountered a total of 7 drow, and have heard of more drow on the surface, attacking, or RPing, than ever before. Whether it is careless abuse of the ability to come up above, or not caring about being seen, I would call that an a significant amount considering they never used to be seen before other than Skullport, or very rarely seen. Now, I'm not saying restrict the ability to come up above, but I think something else could be implemented to keep them from standing around in the light, like they were born there. As it appears right now, they seem more like copies of Drizzt, and the deep gnomes I have seen, or witnessed, act like they are surface gnomes, completely opposite of those below. Whether this is due to poor research, or just lack of care, it doesn't impress, and I don't think the answer is run to the surface to grab it, but finding ways to employ a trade system from surface to below.

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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Nimboro » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:55 am

As one of the active Deep Gnomes, I'll speak up on their behalf on this.

Deep Gnomes don't believe in returning to the surface as a whole race, but individuals do wander up for purposes of trade and sometimes minor adventure due to curiosity, though they often return swiftly to the underdark that is their home. The deep gnomes are also not afraid of the sun, they are raised on stories of the sun being a giant flaming ruby that brings light to the surface, and it is Callarduran's gift to the world. And every so often it sinks back into the deep earth and tiny bits break off, leaving rubies for the deep gnomes to find and dig up! While they are suspicious and would prefer to deal in neutral tunnels, one or two might head to the surface on sparse occasion to bring things back to their home that they can not normally obtain. This includes some knowledge of spells, prepared foods, alcohol is a big one along with crafted goods since too much smithing would fumigate their tunnels. So if you seep a Deep Gnome on the surface, they should be up there for a very specific purpose and returning to the underdark as soon as possible. The problem with hiring a merchant to act in their behalf is that they don't trust people to begin with, why would they hand their coin to someone who might just steal it? Therefore, they must get it themselves for they can't rely on anyone else but themselves.

That's just my opinion on it. Deep Gnomes should keep their visits limited, avoid places like market square, and typically stick to either Dwarven, Elven, or Gnomish communities for trade on the surface. These examples are taken from lore on who they often trade with and would most get along with.

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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Harroghty » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:16 am

I don't pay much attention to Drow lore, but -off the top of my head- I can only think of Zhentil Keep where their presence would be entertained. The rest of the Moonsea is fairly racist, there are too many elves and half-elven across the Dales and Cormanthyr, and too many humans in most other regions.

A builder can only fathom so many interactions for an NPC. Some of my NPCs have pages of code just to rule their basic greetings (covering racial prejudices, social norms, etc.), but with a lot to do it is easy to skip making your regular human hate drow if he is in the middle of somewhere a drow is unlikely to visit. Considering that, it's up to players to act and react IC. (That's not to say that I do not believe the Powers are not watching, but they do not watch everything.)
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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Algon » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:17 pm

And the fact that they seem to take holy symbols after a PK and run to hide in Menzo really REALLY irks me.
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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Mele » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:58 pm

I can vouch with a fair knowledge of drow and deep gnome lore, and the ability to see better than others - the amount of time drow should be spending in Underdark vs the Surface seem to be reversed. Meaning, most of the time drow just visit Menzo while they main the surface.

"Why be different when you're just going to be like everyone else."

Why make a drow when you're just going to go to the surface.

What's sad is there has been so much building below that is being missed out on because old habits die hard.

EDIT: I'd also like to not that 'surface raids' only work as a reasoning when you're actually an organized group raiding. Not going to the surface for skills, spells, training areas and socializing. (They were a thing in the past when drow had no actual way up without imm help, and were pretty cool!)
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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Aysa » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:23 am

Ok, I'm going to speak up here as well...

I have been to the surface a few times, but that was because of the need for spells. If it wasn't for the brief search through some of the cities (like Zhentil Keep, Westgate, etc) and making a solid connection with allies of other "misguided" faiths (that have corrupted the word of the Spider Queen)... there's really not much to be gained. Then again, Vierva is a priestess and her duties really keep her down below.

That being said... sometimes, it's intriguing enough to want that adversarial story line which can only come with encountering villains. Recently, I attempted to create such a story line -- um, but there were technical difficulties which failed in that attempt. That's not to say that I won't try again. (And those who want to argue... I did have a mob of mobs with me, serving as a true raiding party).

So basically, if there's something that I need from the surface, I'll go. Even if it means that I'm going to build an alliance. However, I know that as a member of the First House - my responsibility and duties are to the City of Spiders.

Furthermore, I'm trying to be active enough with events for the UD... and to encourage activities down below. I have a couple of events planned in my head -- that I wanted to wait a bit since I just had the Open Days.

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Re: Underdark denizens, and the surface

Post by Talos » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:11 am

Simply put, all surface ventures should be circumspect and short if done at all, with few exceptions. Lolth and Callarduran will not reflect kindly on their children who are flagrant up above or who do not use common sense.
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