Balance out the forbidden schools for wizards

[Zorinar]

Looking at the spells available in FK we can see some balance issues that need to be addressed with wizards.

We have the following specialty spheres available:
Type: .......... Forbidden school:
Mage ........... NONE

Abjurers ........... Transmutation
Conjurers ...........Evocation
Enchanters ........ Evocation
Invokers ........... Conjuration + Enchantment
Illusionists ..........Necromancy
Necromancers .....Illusion
Transmuters ......Abjuration + Necromancy


Why do we have two schools that have two forbidden schools while the others have only one?

Lets look at some numbers to go along with this: (Thanks goes to Selveem for the numbers)
(Dont forget that all specialists have a lower spell level max than mages except for their specialty school which only they can GM)

Total spells available for a mage (not including level 0): 177

Code: Select all

SCHOOL:    Total spells available     Specialty spells     non-spec spells (weaker than mage)
Abjurers	         136	             |              21	      |     115
Conjurers	        161	             |              24	      |     137
Enchanters	       161	             |              26	      |     135
Invokers	         127	             |              16	      |     111
Illusionists	     154	             |              13	      |     141
Necromancers	     164	             |              23	      |     141
Transmuters	      133	             |              41         |	  92

The only advantage to being a specialist is that you can GM your specialty spells at a loss of power to all other spells.

One has to weigh the risk / benefit ratio and decide if the benefits are really worth the risks...

The biggest winner? Transmuters. Although they have the second lowest number of spells available, they can GM 41 possible spells which is not quite double the runner up being enchanters.

Who are the biggest losers:
Invokers. Not only can they cast the fewest spells, but they are also at the bottom 2 for GM'able spells. 16 for Invokers and only 13 for illusionist is rather sad.


Although transmuters have 2 schools forbidden, they have the most GM'able spells. Invokers take the shaft here with their two forbidden spheres, not to mention that nearly all their GM'able spells are subject to the three resist element spells.

Conclusions?:
Lets get some balance:
1)Let us remove the double forbidden spheres for Invokers and Transmuters OR double up the forbidden schools on each sphere.
2)Let us add a few more spells for Illusionists and Invokers.

[Selveem]

The ones who are the biggest winners, however, are Enchanters and Conjurers, in my opinion. I do agree with Zorro, that Invokers are the biggest losers as far as availability is concerned.

I feel that if we're going to have forbidden spheres, that we should be able to choose which spheres we don't want a piece of. That runs the risk of being slanted of course, now that the information on what spheres are hot and which are not has been compiled, but it's still a step in the right direction from the 2.0 hybrid it currently uses.

[Lathander]

we should be able to choose which spheres we don't want a piece of

Not a good idea if balance is the goal.

[Eltsac]

Eltsac being a mage, I do not have much experience about school specialization, but we could want to switch to the 3.5 edition rules, which is (if I understand it well) :
When choosing your specialization, you have to chose (your own choice) 2 forbidden schools.
You can't chose divination as forbidden school, and if you specialize in divination, you only chose 1 forbidden school.

El

[Selveem]

we should be able to choose which spheres we don't want a piece of

Not a good idea if balance is the goal.

How do you figure? If some schools are lacking, I guess they deserve more spells instead of making them a crutch by giving them less restrictions than anyone else.

[Llanthyr]

Just speaking of invokers alone, I do not think that the forbidden schools for invokers have severely devalued them. Just think of why you made an invoker in the first place : To blast things away. What do they lose from the conjuration school : Some acid spells, and mostly travel spells. What do they lose from the enchantment school: Well, I'll be suitably impressed if you can throw out some spells that they use that are useful. Power words, in my opinion, are useful for killing bandits.

Illusionists on the other hand do not have a large range of heavy powered illusion spells to call on. But they get a larger range of other spells compared to invokers.

Transmuters on the other hand have necromancy and abjuration spheres removed from them. Necromancy isn't really a problem, since, what spells do they have that are so scary anyway? It's all the higher level necromancy spells that are impressive, and no necromancers get them. Abjuration on the other hand, has always been the "enemy school" for transmuters. This removes the ability to stone skin, which is a low level wizzie's survival spell. However, I would still say that transmuters have it pretty good.

However, I do have the same gripe for your other comparison. Not between schools, but between specialists and not specialist wizards. I had the same question before: Why make a specialist, when everything heavily favours a non-specialist wizard?

My proposed solution: Introduce higher level spells for specialists, and only these specialists will be able to teach the others these spells. This would of course require a rework of the teach system such that it does not need the spell to be GM-ed, or through bringing in a scribe system. This would only be a temporary solution however, because once a mage gets to learn all those spells, he would still have a larger range of ammo than a specialist.

[Zorinar]

Well, from my end, I wasn't trying to convince everyone that Invokers are unplayable because they have two forbidden schools. Invokers are playable. The point I am trying to make is that I would like to see some consistency with the amount of forbidden schools each sphere gets. I was not here back in the "old days" and I don't know what the reason was for some spheres having two forbidden schools and others one, but I can't really see why it is such today. It's a little thing, perhaps, but I think it would be a step towards "finishing" the classes by equaling them out.

I also love the idea of allowing the specialists access to the higher level spells in their field and giving them the options to teach such spells to the world.

I would also love to see more guild based RP and involvement for wizards but I know I am stretching things with that. Right now we are a faith heavy RP mud but there is definitely some potential for guild based RP to be played around with.

[Selveem]

The reason has been discussed in an old thread I don't care to resurface. Basically, it's second edition rules.