Tarven wrote:If you don't like it, try playing a class that requires effort.
I like being lazy. I am the laziest of the lazies.
Insinuating that playing a fighter takes no effort is a very large statement to make about a broad swath of our player base. I like to think that it's more than a lazy excuse to play a class.
Compared to any other class, fighters do not require any effort. GMing skills is comparatively a breeze, and they have a lot fewer skills, especially active skills, that require GMing. Everything that fighters need to GM, with the exception of disarm and bash, is automatic.
Back on topic, I would prefer making other additions over removing currently-coded benefits.
Okay, fine. Then give EVERY class an additional attack, and give wizards 2 (they should have second attack as it is), and also give every class grip.
Alright. Tarven, I feel you have a few decent points in your post, but is there really a need to attack the other posters and be just down right belligerent in your posts? Your posts are so derogatory and mean spirited, that I have decided to block them so I do not have to subject myself to that kind of bad attitude.
I fear that any and all points, no matter how well thought out and possibly true they are, are going to be overlooked by your rudeness and complete disregard for the other players here.
Have a look at the quoted post above. How do you expect for anyone to mull over what you have said and actually consider it, when you are absolutely nothing but close minded and belittling?
Because I'm tired of repeating myself to the various fighters who keep saying the same thing as each other. Notice, that it seems to be ONLY fighters who object to these changes. I'm tired of having to state the same points, over and over, to people who haven't done the math.
And as I've said already in this post: Fighters are easy-mode. They start out strong, and don't peak until 50, and even then, their plateau is higher than most classes. They're the most 'forgiving' of errors, they have very high hit point potential, very high armor class potential, very high damage potential. Fighters think that they should be able to dominate every other class, all the while saying how other classes shouldn't be able to do this or that.
If you want to make personal attacks, Algon, and say I have a bad attitude, we can talk about poor OOC behaviors and meta-gaming. Please don't push me to go there. If I have a poor attitude towards players right now, it's because I've been subjected to cheating, meta-gaming, twinking, and bullying, and then treated as though I victimized others. Meanwhile, I'm working towards improving the game FOR ALL CLASSES, including fighters, with constructive ideas and solutions, and yet hearing the EXACT SAME arguments, over and over, from different people, who aren't reading the counter-arguments. I'm tired of hearing about how "Fifth attack hardly hits anyway", when that can ONLY be in regards to PvP. Against a mobile with 20 AC, which is reasonably high for mobiles, you should be hitting -no less- than 50% of the time.
I'm sick of players thinking only in terms of their PvP advantages or disadvantages. This isn't a PK Mud. It's an RP mud that -allows- PK.
Bregga wrote:As for the need of grip and fifth attack, have you tried playing a fighter? I'm sorry but years of training, and training, and training I do not agree with you. Fighters are not completely the EASIEST. You can't have a fighter level 50 with no skills trained up. You have to train them constantly to get to a point where they are even decent.
I -have- actually played a fighter. Have -you- played a wizard? Why do you think there are so many fighters and clerics out there, and so few thieves or wizards? Because they're easier. Wizards have potential to become quite powerful, even without abusing polymorph, but it requires a lot of planning, thought, and dedication. Clerics require some effort in leveling their spells, but comparatively little.
Bregga wrote:Luckily we do not have to convince you. I am pretty sure the imms, and staff make the decisions on this.
Then why are people making the same tired arguments, over and over and over, as if trying to convince me? Is it because they know deep down that I'm right, and are worried that staff will indeed agree with me? Really, I don't anticipate that happening. I think that they will agree with the "Add to others, not take away from fighters" stance, because that's typically been the case with all classes in the past. Even though they -have- taken away from casters, with the new systems. People seem to not pay attention to that. Casters used to be able to both attack, and cast. No longer. Casters used to be able to fairly well spam their spells. No longer. Why? Class balance. These were VERY necessary changes, but they WERE removals. Just as I feel that the removal of grip, and especially of fifth attack, are necessary.
I'm done. This thread has gone totally off-topic. I refuse to have to defend myself or my opinions, and then to be called rude for expressing a viewpoint that fighters are easy-mode.