Lockable carts/wagons

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Bronson
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Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Bronson » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:20 pm

So I was fiddling with the idea of making a travelling merchant, with the roleplay of always having my wagon or cart traveling next to me and thought it would be cool to be able to purchase a lockable cart, not to say people would steal, but if i'm fighting things and leave my cart outside the scary cave, I would want reassurance that all the items would still be in there.

thoughts?

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Mele » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:23 am

If you leave your cart in a stable knowing that you are going to a scary cave it won't be stolen from.
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Yemin » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:55 am

Think it falls under fantasy realism. A cart left in the wilderness will be plundered whether locked or not. I kinda play a merchant type character and I don't even leave my cart outside its stall / area for long in cities.

I could see your idea working if instead of merchant the char was a WoT / KK chronicles tinker. A drifter who collects absolutely everything and doesn't sell, but instead trades from his mountains of bags procariously heaped onto the back of his camel / mule.
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Ungtar » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:20 pm

Yemin wrote:Think it falls under fantasy realism. A cart left in the wilderness will be plundered whether locked or not. I kinda play a merchant type character and I don't even leave my cart outside its stall / area for long in cities.

I could see your idea working if instead of merchant the char was a WoT / KK chronicles tinker. A drifter who collects absolutely everything and doesn't sell, but instead trades from his mountains of bags procariously heaped onto the back of his camel / mule.
With the inability to rent any other storage, maybe we could get two carts slots. I would like a "wilderness" cart where I could store a bedroll and some other goods and create a portable campsite. There is a travois in the game but it seems like it's for druids only.

I tried just carrying my goods around in a spare sack and dumping it on the ground where I set up a base camp but the game crashed and I lost it all. It's a pain because you have to hunt all across Faerun for those "flavor" items like cooking pots and skinning knives. Then I tried piling it on a mule so it would be preserved in a crash, but I took one step too far off a road and a hill giant instakilled my mule. :(

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Larethiel » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:22 pm

There is a travois in the game but it seems like it's for druids only.
Nope, open to more classes than druids.
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Harroghty » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:35 pm

So the locking cart is a great idea. The problem is that any one object only has one key, so the options are either that a certain cart have only one key (every instance of that cart, regardless of owner, would have the same key) or that there be many unique carts with unique keys. The first solution doesn't really solve the problem and the latter is not practical.

Stealing from a cart is governed by the same rules as stealing from a person. So while dropping a pack on the ground is fair game for a thief (or object decay), you will not lose all of your stuff if you park your cart somewhere. Of course lugging a cart around to training, leveling, or questing areas is not very practical from an IC or OOC standpoint. IC, a merchant would likely store his livelihood somewhere safe rather than park it outside the local goblin camp; goblins are, IC, not limited by STAY_AREA and SENTINEL flags. OOC, this will tire your mount quickly as it lugs a cart across the Realms.

My recommendation would be that RP color objects such as bed rolls, etc. be kept on a mount (it's what I've done for years personally) and that carts be stored either at a stable or some other secure location (an area of your temple or organization which has access control). If you are going to be a merchant wandering the roads and must bring your cart with you, then conceal it somewhere out of sight and have confidence knowing that another player's potential theft from it is governed by the rules.
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Gwain » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:31 pm

What about a combination lock like we had for puzzle boxes? Would that eliminate the need for unique items?
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Tyeslan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:30 pm

Harroghty wrote:So the locking cart is a great idea. The problem is that any one object only has one key, so the options are either that a certain cart have only one key (every instance of that cart, regardless of owner, would have the same key) or that there be many unique carts with unique keys. The first solution doesn't really solve the problem and the latter is not practical.

Stealing from a cart is governed by the same rules as stealing from a person. So while dropping a pack on the ground is fair game for a thief (or object decay), you will not lose all of your stuff if you park your cart somewhere. Of course lugging a cart around to training, leveling, or questing areas is not very practical from an IC or OOC standpoint. IC, a merchant would likely store his livelihood somewhere safe rather than park it outside the local goblin camp; goblins are, IC, not limited by STAY_AREA and SENTINEL flags. OOC, this will tire your mount quickly as it lugs a cart across the Realms.

My recommendation would be that RP color objects such as bed rolls, etc. be kept on a mount (it's what I've done for years personally) and that carts be stored either at a stable or some other secure location (an area of your temple or organization which has access control). If you are going to be a merchant wandering the roads and must bring your cart with you, then conceal it somewhere out of sight and have confidence knowing that another player's potential theft from it is governed by the rules.

I understand the impractical part of this, but what about a glory cost for a unique cart(In line with the dwellings is what I imagine) should a merchant really wish to cart around a cart, and want to lock it? I don't know if that is possible, but could be nice, or would it be too much work for builders/imms?

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Harroghty » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 pm

Combination locks ceased to function after hard code included a standard purpose for value4; they required both value4 and value5, which is no longer possible.

I don't see a good way to do bespoke carts right now.
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Algon » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:02 pm

Harroghty wrote:Combination locks ceased to function after hard code included a standard purpose for value4; they required both value4 and value5, which is no longer possible.

I don't see a good way to do bespoke carts right now.

Does ownsmark work at all?

If so, it could be added to the cart code when purchased to flag the player as owner and then a simple intercept prog to check for this whenever someone tries to "get" from the cart. Something like...
>intercept_prog get~
if ownsmark($n)
mpunintercept
else
mpecho at $n You find the cart locked up tight.
endif
~
Just throwing out ideas!
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Harroghty » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:32 pm

Yes, it does work. The problem with that is now you're circumventing all kinds of hardcode and tipping the balance the other direction (i.e. no one can steal).
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Algon » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:24 am

Well, you could put a separate intercept prog for steal that does a check against the steal skill. On success they grab something from the cart, on failure...um...something else happens? Alarms, bells, and whistles!
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Bronson » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:15 pm

Some good points have been brought up on this thread, for instance, I didn't think about the fact that everyone can buy the same cart, so having identical keys (while minimizing potential thefts) would still almost defeat the purpose.

It's probably more work than it's worth, but I think the only way we're going to get unique keys is if when you purchase a cart/wagon, there is a randomly generated identifier attached to it. Then we'd have to have some sort of locksmith that could generate a key based on that identification number.

IE:
value 'ebony wagon' locksmith
A locksmith says, "I can have a key made up for ye for just one platinum!"

Locksmith then generates the key on identifier of cart/wagon that was specified.

And for what it's worth, I am very much for the player's abilities to steal from carts, or pick the locks on wagons (if implemented).

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Ungtar » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:28 pm

I like your idea, Bronson, but I would apply it to a different object for more versatility.

Consider that if carts, chests, trunks, and such that you bought were lockable, but they didn't come with their own lock.

Then you would buy the lock separately which would be generated with a key at that point. The lock gets put on the lockable object. Lose your key and your out of luck unless you can make friends with a thief who can pick.

Locks would then be rated by quality. Cheap locks are easy to pick, expensive gnome-crafted locks much harder.

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Bronson » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:46 pm

Ungtar, love those ideas!

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Gwain » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:37 am

Another option is to make a storage room attachable to a cart, meaning it acts as a mobile door with a unique key or entry item. The problem is that each one has to be built buy a builder and door coded, storerooms are difficult to manage sometimes and I have no idea how many active players and characters there are.
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Beskytter » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:29 am

I don't see that a cart could realistically be "locked". They're typically open topped wooden platforms with short walls and 2 - 4 wheels.

Chests I could see as being lockable and at that point they could come with a generic lock/unlock system that we govern with the rule regarding theft. As in: If a chest is initially locked it is governed the same way that carts are currently. Then it's really just an RP flavoring command ~~

smote gets a key hanging on a simple chain from around his neck.
unlock chest
smote opens the chest and rumages around inside, the sounds of metal clinking against glass are muffled slightly.
Beskytter gets a potion of Example from an ebony chest decorated with golden runes.
lock chest
smote replaces the lid and turns the key which he furtively conceals beneath his armor.

That way it's just a simple lock/unlock command that requires no actual key, then when say a thief tries to steal from it they'll see:
OOC: Warning. Read the help file on chests when trying to steal.
You notice a simple/difficult/exotic lock is in place here.
You are able to undo the simple/difficult/exotic lock.
Your armor hinders your ability to pick the lock, tell-tale markings have been left on the metal.

Simple/difficult/exotic are just based on the description and price of the chest you buy:
An exotic wood chest marked with ornate etchings in ancient design. (Exotic lock)
A simple wooden chest with iron bands. (Simple lock)
A well crafted iron strongbox with a heavy padlock. (Difficult lock)
The locks themselves have generic values for skill checks so that exotic locks might be hard to open without leaving a trace for even lock picking masters. (This is definitely up to IMM pov, I don't know the system's math for skill checks.)
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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Gwain » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:39 am

Here's the thing about the honour system. It seldom works. Some people will take advantage of the rules until they are caught, then the victims suffer and the code has to be altered to avoid future abuse. So anything that needs to be built, needs to be secure.
Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right.

Spelling is not necessarily correct :)

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Re: Lockable carts/wagons

Post by Ungtar » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:17 pm

Gwain wrote:Here's the thing about the honour system. It seldom works.
Pretty much, yeah.

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