Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

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Vaemar
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Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Vaemar » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:49 am

Taken from other threads, here for you guys! :P

The proposal is to reduce a bit stamina drain of some Underdark wilderness rooms, that at present makes going around there in group, or even exploring alone, extremely time-consuming, requiring to spend a lot of time resting in these rooms, which is not exactly funny.

Currently there are two ways to speed up things a little, but they imply either being a priest or having a priest around, or spending a good sum of coin. Both methods are not viable in big groups.

Also, for what I have noticed, the rooms that really drain (too) much stamina are the omnipresent tunnels. I think these are the main issue for travelling down there and they are not often avoidable.

There is to mention, however, that part of the lethality of the Underdark is also due to this stamina cost, because you can have dangerous mobs such as purple worms walking into the room while you are resting. So this should be taken into account too.

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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Thurgan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:59 pm

IMO wandering around in the Underdark is not supposed to be easy, and it indeed requires proper planning. Realistically most would not be wandering around in the Underdark aimlessly.

The idea is you are working your way through intense tunnel and cave systes, which takes a lot of time and energy. I think the system as it is is fine. There are ways to overcome this to an extent that you can find out IC that do not involve a priest. Though a priest and or revive potions do certainly make it easier.

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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Ungtar » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:45 pm

The C rooms in the Underdark are gigantic caverns. There's no reason at all that your fly spells don't work there or that they take the movement rate they do.

The o rooms are tunnels but it's not clear what sort of tunnels they are ... wide ones you can easily walk in or tight ones that you crawl through. Since you can run into huge monsters in them I'm guessing they are pretty big.

The Underdark movement rates do not make logical sense. The Underdark is ALREADY hard. Artificially imposed stamina drain is an additional hardship which adds nothing.

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Ailyn
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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Ailyn » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:25 pm

Really, the Stamina drain in my opinion as it is is just fine. If you have ever gone spelunking, the caves you traverse come in various sizes and have a number of difficulties with them. You may find yourself one moment crawling through a tunnel you barely fit through, and next in a large cavern with an underground lake, or be forced to backtrack from a dead-end. You cannot rush through them, and there are times you have to just stop a moment to catch your breath. Even though Ailyn is a priestess, I have been down there with non-priest characters and I still do not mind being forced to stop for a few moments before moving on. It adds to the immersion that the Underdark is a wild place, not easily traversed as any network of caves should be, and that it does require proper preparation.
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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Gwain » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:15 pm

You can fly in cavern rooms though.
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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Ungtar » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:21 pm

The Underdark is not a cave. The ceiling of the Underdark is nearly a mile above your head in the big caverns. The main method of transportation, according to the sourcebook, is in boats on the many navigable rivers and lakes. In the largest caverns, it is representational of surface terrain with hills, valleys, and even mountains.

Entire civilizations of cloakers and other airborne species live up near the ceiling or in the walls. It is, simply put, HUGE.

There is no real world application to a cavern this big.

All we have represented in-game (thus far) is the Upperdark, which is where most of the action happens. It's inhabited by the relatively mundane races such as a drow, svirf, wererats and such. But there's also two more layers below that which get progressively more arcane as you go down. At the deepest level, vast darkened caverns transition directly into the elemental plane of Shadow. You have very Lovecraftian horrors down there which are also alien to Faerun such as aboleths and illithid cities.

There are roads in the Underdark which lead from the Northdark (well represented in game) to Skullport and are traveled and patrolled by merchants. Actual roads!

The Underdark has the oldest history in all of Faerun with civilizations predating anything on the surface. The drow are considered newcomers there, having only been around for a few millenium.

It's an entire campaign setting all its own. It is not even remotely similar to something like Carlsbad Caverns or Mammoth cave.

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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Yemin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:26 pm

Is spelunking harder than hiking up thin paths on cliff faces whilst your mountain hiking? climbing up a couple dozen feet on the mountainside to bridge a previous landslide?

If not I move mountain rooms start costing 30% stamina drain, not to mention desert rooms start increasing stamina drain and thirst the longer you're in them and move from one room to another more and more.

I also move each water room cost about the same. Have you ever swam 30 miles before? Which is the distance in one move on the world map. You'd be hard pressed to argue that a 30 mile swim through turbulant sea costs as little as it does.

I only mention this because for me this is one of the things like the evident time distortion we hand wave because it is more fun to do so. It's fine to have realism because of this and that but this in my experience is an OOC measure that keeps me out of there, not really an IC one. I can walk from Waterdeep, cross country to somewhere like baldur's gate across swamp, river, forest and mountains. or I can move 1 30 mile pace in the underdark?

It just seems way out of spec and comparison and it's something I would like to see go though it's been mentioned elsewhere that this would take hardcode on the environment types. for those areas so fingers crossed someone is willing and able.

I know for me it would change the game for the better
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Re: Reduce stamina drain for the Underdark

Post by Vaemar » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:49 pm

I see this as an issue exquisitely related to gameplay.

I have not as many troubles with the current system as others, but I have found myself sometimes, in expeditions that took long hours, and ended rather late, sadly, but not because of the expeditions themselves, or because there was not organization, rather because we spent a lot of time waiting in those tunnel rooms. When I am alone I mind it less, but still, it is annoying to make long treks, such as going from Blingdenstone to Skullport at level 27 it took me two hours and half. A bit too much in my opinion.

Essentially I see spending so much time resting to go through three rooms as boring, when I can employ that time doing funnier things. Hence I tend to avoid travelling in the Underdark with my characters. This implies that both my drow and deep gnome have travelled more on the surface than in the Underdark, and not because they go often to the surface.

I do believe perhaps a little recalibration to lower a bit some stamina costs might trade a little danger of the Underdark with a more enjoyable game, having time employed in more exciting activities than resting in rooms for so long.

Also lowering a bit does not mean making travelling the Underdark safe. The dangers would still be there, after all, and the recalibration does not need to be drastical, I am of the opinion that even a minor correction could improve the situation considerably.

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