Arrow retrieval

A place to suggest new commands, feats, skills, ...
Post Reply
Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Arrow retrieval

Post by Yemin » Sat May 14, 2016 10:14 am

One aspect of bow and projectile use that I would like to see would be if arrows had no chance to get placed in inventory upon hit. This would make retrieving them and archery a lot smoother in both groups and solo.

Thanks for reading
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!

Vaemar
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 665
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Vaemar » Fri May 20, 2016 2:53 pm

I subscribe 100%.

User avatar
Larethiel
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:10 pm
Location: Mt. Whateverest
Contact:

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Larethiel » Fri May 20, 2016 4:22 pm

One aspect of bow and projectile use that I would like to see would be if arrows had no chance to get placed in inventory upon hit. This would make retrieving them and archery a lot smoother in both groups and solo.
Where would they be placed else, then? On the ground does not seem to make sense. Or junked upon hit?
Weit in der Champagne im Mittsommergrün,
dort, wo zwischen Grabkreuzen Mohnblumen blühn,
da flüstern die Gräser und wiegen sich leicht
im Wind, der sanft über das Gräberfeld streicht.

Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Yemin » Fri May 20, 2016 7:17 pm

I think it would be a miniscule to nonexistant dismissal of belief if they were placed on the groundyes as currently the inventory represents not only hands, but that the item is generally close by, within your reach, in a place where you can retrieve it faster than anyone else bar a skilled thief etc. The ground and inventory have a blurry line IC how I see it if you dismiss the hard OOC mechanics like get and take commands.

I'm fairly sure I remember reading a post by Cyric a few years ago when the steal command was getting discussed and he stated much the similar in that the inventory is a vague term and could even apply to something you're dragging behind you / you have 3 airport bags and in tandom transport one a short way, leaving the third and then going back to pick it up and transport it to the other two.

Essentially, in my experience it is clunky to retrieve arrows from corpses. I propose to make a chance so the fill command can see its full potential when an archer or knife thrower is in a group or alone. It's hard to verbalize but one of the things I enjoy about mudding with this kind of combat system is the momentum one can achieve whilst alone, but even more so when in a group.

Again, hard to verbalize but it puts a stupid grin on my face when a group I'm in or leading is working like a well oiled machine. it's some mix of pride / fun.

Of course, this would also have the advantage of not leaving arrows behind because you feel you're slowing everyone down. That in turn isn't something we should allow if the game can help it.
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!

User avatar
Larethiel
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:10 pm
Location: Mt. Whateverest
Contact:

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Larethiel » Fri May 20, 2016 8:03 pm

you have 3 airport bags and in tandom transport one a short way, leaving the third and then going back to pick it up and transport it to the other two.
Or you get a baggage cart or expect for your bag beind blown up for being a suspiciously left behind piece of baggage...

Arrows get stuck in people, that's in their nature, they get embedded in flesh and bone even preserved there for centuries after they killed someone. The arrowheads only though. If they are not dropped in the inventory, where else? Retrieving arrows from corpses is kind of a natural thing when arrows are collected. It even matches realism...if we can even compare that. I would regard it as a necessity and an opportunity to roleplay pulling arrows out ot your enemies...or so.

But maybe I am just not seeing the problem :)
Weit in der Champagne im Mittsommergrün,
dort, wo zwischen Grabkreuzen Mohnblumen blühn,
da flüstern die Gräser und wiegen sich leicht
im Wind, der sanft über das Gräberfeld streicht.

User avatar
Liri
Sword Bumbler
Sword Bumbler
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Liri » Fri May 20, 2016 8:14 pm

An issue that I have had in the past is when a mob is set to junk all when it dies, thereby losing any arrows that did land in the inventory. No too much of a big deal with just arrows, only really annoying when they are nicer PC fletched ones. However if it were a magical throwing knife or javelin, which I think work on the same principal, that would be a bit worse.

Areia
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Areia » Fri May 20, 2016 8:16 pm

I agree that something along these lines would make bows much smoother to use, most especially in mid- to large-sized groups who are fighting several enemies at a time. As it is now, after every combat one needs to spend time searching each corpse, getting all the ammo from each, and refilling the quiver whenever your inventory fills up. That's a lot of typing! :)

Some suggestions

-Aliases. E.G.: "alias j get 5 arrow %.corpse & put all.arrow quiver"
So with this, one could type something like a simple "j", then "j 2", "j 3"... to sift through all the corpses in the room. And when you're done with that, do a quick "fill quiv" (which I'd assign to the "fq" alias) to get all the ammo on the ground. The downside with this is that the MUD's alias system sometimes interposes some strange lag in between each command's execution, which might still slow things down slightly. But it'd be a lot better than no aliases at all.
-Fill % corpse: This would take some hard code change, but I've always thought if it were possible to fill a container from a corpse on the ground (e.g., "fill quiver corpse"), it would make this kind of thing a lot easier.
-What Yemin suggested: Just have ammo drop from inventories, if possible? Another hard code change, it sounds like. I mean, the thing I've always liked about their staying in the inventory is that it simulates pretty nicely that you need to physically pull them free of the flesh of the poor guy who got hit. And it puts some pretty amusing images in my head. But... Anyway. ^^
Nascentes morimur, finisque ab origine pendet.

User avatar
Gwain
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Waterdeep
Contact:

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Gwain » Fri May 20, 2016 8:34 pm

In some games like Skyrim, you have a small percentage of a chance of recovering your arrows from corpses when they are used. In a tabletop d&d game you may start out with a certain amount of arrows in your inventory that you use up as you do combat. You don't get those back unless you make an attempt at rping their retrieval. As a game I will say that one thing we certainly have going for us in the area of bows is that they double as stave weapons when ammo is depleted.
Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right.

Spelling is not necessarily correct :)

Yemin
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm
Location: On the back of castle oblivion

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Yemin » Fri May 20, 2016 8:44 pm

Re: lari
I think we simply have different playstyles. I enjoy rp otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I also enjoy momentum and the hack and slash aspect of this game as well. I don't mind saying that sometimes, I would forgo some realism for a better playing experience in what constitutes a better playing experience in my view. I reckon My head is not a pleasant place to be for anyone else than myseln but in there, smoting after filling your quiver that you pull out arrows, as upposed to getting them out of corpses achieves the same result if you want to roleplay pulling out arrows but the latter breaks momentum, and doesn't address the following concern.

The magical thrown items as has been brought in is something I didn't consider. One of my characters does have a magical throwing hammer but carted it because it looks really good and I didn't want to lose it to the random junking that happens to projectiles and or it getting stuck in a mob's inventory when it's killed and junked.

I feel, though perhaps wrongly that for people who use bows more regularly like myself, it would better the experience. At the moment, I don't even seek player made arrows, i cart around 150 arrows which isn't technically possible in a normal sized quiver and don't bother even trying to retrieve them most of the time. IC, they'd be in bundles of 20 in my bag but you get my point.

Arows to me, are like spell components. I'm used to not having to keep track of them unless they're special. Doesn't mean I want to make bows autofire here. i would however like to push their maintenance further back in the micromanaging of my archer whilst still giving those who want to make their own / go in depth with them the opportunity to do so.

If instead the intent is to make arrows awkward to retrieve then that's a whole different story. I'd adjust my expectations appropriately and start carting around a few hundred more. Though there's still the magical arrow / player made arrows issue to address.
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!

Vaemar
Sword Grand Master
Sword Grand Master
Posts: 665
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:21 am

Re: Arrow retrieval

Post by Vaemar » Fri May 20, 2016 9:21 pm

I see it that either we let projectiles always fall on the ground or we remove virtually most mobs who junk their inventory upon death. As it is not realistic for arrows to fall on the ground, at the same time this junking is not realistic, as well as pretty annoying and penalyzing.

Also, another thing worth noting: having the arrows mechanically on th ground does not prevent to roleplsy they are stuck in the body of the enemy. I have notuced that the probability of the projectiles being in the inventory of the target is actually unrelated to the fact that they have been hit by them or not. I.e. you can have your arrow on the ground after a critical or your arrow in the mob's inventory after a missed hit.

Post Reply