Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

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Jarngron
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Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Jarngron » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:26 am

I propose adding an 'exclude' command which will effectively exclude NPCs and PCs from being affected by area of effect spells from the user.
For instance:

Bloodtusk spots his friend Ratsquish the Goblin in battle with a pesky adventurer. Instead of running in to join the melee, Bloodtusk enters 'exclude Ratsquish' - and begins to summon a storm of vengeance from the south, into Ratsquish's tile. Once the adventurer has been slain, Bloodtusk runs in to take the loot - which Ratsquish insists on being solely his. He then either repeats 'exclude Ratsquish' or types 'exclude none' to remove his former friend and ally, and targets Ratsquish with a silent, still charm spell to try and keep things from getting out of hand.

This will be used to ignore NPCs as well such as citizens, merchants, and so forth - making AoE spells a little safer for that lonely traveler that just happened to walk by.
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Bellayana
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Bellayana » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:54 pm

While I appreciate the "escape" from having to worry about NPC's, this destroys the bystander casualties which many people have to take in account. There are not always going to be people on each side of the fight, with the caster or against. Magic doesn't discriminate, and these little caveats are what make the game more challenging. Like the idea, but don't agree with it's implementation. Just my take on it though.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Hrosskell » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:16 pm

I feel like the "group" function serves this purpose well enough. Beyond that would severely unhinge one of the only checks to spells of this category, some of which are already much more powerful than their tabletop versions due to that very mechanic, e.g., Wail / SoV.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Terrock » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:24 pm

Hmmm, intresting idea. But perhaps of it just having it as a command, it can be a new meta-magic feat

It would function as you say but as meta-feat, and a wizard who get this feat is considered proficent enough in AoE spells or has enough control over magic in general that there are able to control who it may or may not hit with some spells. Just a thought.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Mele » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:32 pm

I hate to be that guy buuuuuut...

I'd like to think if this were possible it would be done given the whole, not accidentally killing benefit?
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Jarngron » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:36 am

Magic may not be discriminating, but a caster definitely should be! Operating within your normal environment is important in adventuring. There is a very isometric top-down element to tabletop which is lost in the spacial representation.

For instance one tile in Pathfinder is 5 feet. One tile in travel is 5 leagues! That's one big AOE marker.

It should be sensible enough to consider casting with the constraint of not hitting a nearby target, to impose either partial or full cover penalties to casting. It can also be considered a complexity like metamagic, as Pathfinder has adopted a 'nonlethal spell' metamagic.

If someone is in melee combat with a spell victim they are fair game clearly for getting hit with AOE, party or not, so to some extent there is already a flexible ruling for this kind of casting.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Yemin » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:19 am

I'm of the opinion that magic is dangerous. You can already hit a single target with many of the AoE spells.

If you begin casting and an NPC you didn't want to hit walks into the room, well, it makes sense that they didn't see you casting from afar and came at the sound of fighting like most PCs would.

Personally I think those areas where friendly NPCs are wandering among the friendly ones is kind of bad design. There are many ways to represent good NPCs fighting evil ones without making them wonder around a war zone, especially if there are q'bits attached to a PC hitting them with an attack. Unless that was the builder's intent then fair enough I suppose.

To summarise, if you hit too many friendly NPcs with AoE spells then you should likely adopt a different technique of fighting. Its entirely possible not to with a change of strategy alone. And is one of those unintended consequences of the system which I partially appreciate to a point because it makes you think about how your going to do something, rather than letting an automated system in the game take care of it for you.

If though, there are specific places where NPCs just get in the way due to an oversight in building, then the zone should be changed to keep in mind that some classes, in large only have AoE spells and can only deal with the threat in that zone with them. Again, unless it was intentional.

Basically, this can be in large fixed with forthought or a few corrections in key areas to the point that any further accidental hits taken are so low that it properly represents the danger o AoE spells.

As for the nonlethal metamagic, it is a legitimate feat, but I never liked it. And never took it on any of my casters. Making magical fire nonlethal was too far a break in magical lore for me.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Jarngron » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:09 pm

We should never base our rules on what we like, we should base them on what is fair. We all have to play by them.
Cattle die
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all men are mortal.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Hrosskell » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:29 am

Jarngron wrote:If someone is in melee combat with a spell victim they are fair game clearly for getting hit with AOE, party or not, so to some extent there is already a flexible ruling for this kind of casting.
What AoE spell hits party member melee combatants? If this actually is occurring, my opinion on the viability of a feat might change. I have never witnessed it.
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Re: Exclude (name) - ignoring NPCs with AoE

Post by Yemin » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:00 am

Jarngron wrote:We should never base our rules on what we like, we should base them on what is fair. We all have to play by them.
It so happens that what I like is fair.
*In my mind anyway.
Others disagree, hence these lovley debates
I trained up double-edged bananas because the uber-plantain of doom I scored from the beehive quest was the best weapon in the game. Now it's being treated like a bug and they have gimped its damage! That's not fair! My character is ruined!

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