Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

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Hrosskell
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Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Hrosskell » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:29 am

Hi! I was wondering if there could be any amendment made to raise the quality of life of a thief (or any hidden, sneaking character) grouping with others. As it stands, the party can't really do anything to keep up with a thief and a thief can't really do anything to keep up with a party: following while sneak/hide removes the stealth, denying sneak attacks and sometimes drawing aggression from mobs that ought to be avoided.

Some potential solutions:
-- Make sneak = speed walk, follow not remove you from hide.
---- This one has some precedence (it worked this way previously) and honestly should be the case, with the counterbalances for following enemies already in place: a reroll of spot/listen vs. sneak/hide per room. The more you sneak/hide, the more likely you are to get caught (without a strangely implemented bonus/negative trade-off). Getting caught by a friendly isn't so bad, and wouldn't necessarily hinder your adventure, but if you decide to spy/stalk follow someone, this would balance it out.

OR

-- Allow partied members an echo covering the movement of a thief
---- "You see a shadowy movement off to the [direction]."
This would send thieves ahead into danger, requiring them to "set up" before their party arrived. It poses significantly more danger to the party and the thief in question, but does get the job of easing group play done.

While I understand that there are situations where a thief might get separated and have to make the choice between a flashing amulet and going it alone, those things would still happen if separated by more than one room. I feel currently, it puts a large burden on the thief to play very hard and his companions to have to play hard with him. Equal consideration is paid to clerics/wizards by way of their AoE spells and the group mechanic, and other classes really don't have to deal with this type of party-gaming situation.
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Elerian
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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Elerian » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:25 pm

I for the life of me, do not understand why the current implementation evolved into the way it is now. Why can't a rogue follow a person walking in sneak/hide mode. There is no precedent (that I can think of) in Tabletop, nor for the first decade or so of the mud to invoke this change. Jog/Run/Fly I totally understand, but the mechanic being hindered like it is now, seems almost...superficial?

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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Skylar » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:36 pm

"You may move up to one-half your movement speed at no penalty."
Sneak is "move silently" which goes on to explain penalties to your roll when moving faster than one-half. I believe that is why it was implemented as it was. I like the idea of rogues being able to sneak faster at increased risk of detection though.
Alternatively, what if your group uses speed limp, might that work in meantime?
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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Elerian » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:42 pm

The reverse is you're always at a penalty when moving while hidden/sneaking resulting in everyone (mobs included) running a spot/listen check against your skill, which I doubt the intent is make you roll for every step you take. I'd rather take the penalty to skulk around a non grouped target then to lose the ability altogether to follow as a group since checks wont matter to the group if they spot/hear you.

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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Vaemar » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:45 pm

Skylar wrote:Alternatively, what if your group uses speed limp, might that work in meantime?
It is actually what people do already, but it is only viable to an extent. If you are in the wilderness it is definitely a no go, and neither it is if you want to move for many rooms.

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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Yemin » Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:03 pm

You may move up to half your movement speed at no penalty, but in the hackey way that 3.5 is designed. That only translated to using 1 move action per half speed. Means if someone is walking normally, one move action for their full movement. You can keep up by using both move actions you're permitted per round to keep up. Keeping up whilst jogging, or running though. Out of the question, I agree.

I support anything that makes grouping easier.
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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Bellayana » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:10 am

Huzzah, and Here! Here!

I honestly think rogue characters should be able to follow characters while keeping in sneaking speed. Amending this would keep with the sake of RP. All penalites and adjustments accordingly.
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Hrosskell
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Re: Amending Awkward Group Interactions: Thieves

Post by Hrosskell » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:11 pm

As it stands, sneaking is not the hindrance. You can sneak at any speed. It's remaining hidden, which ONLY happens at speed sneak. Making this speed equivalent with walk (so that you don't have to come out of hiding to keep up) is desirable. I understand some flavor and balance reasons why remaining hidden at speed jog/run is unwanted, but disabling it at a walk just causes a world of headache for groups.
Jamais arriere.

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