Secondary Spell Affects

[Rhelian]

I probably said something similar to this before, but I was thinking that some spells could have a secondary affect due to their nature. The best example of this would be the spell fly. At the moment, it gives your character a faster movement speed, drains less mv when wandering around rooms, and allows the character to navigate over certain areas - like bogs, rivers, and oceans. But would it also confer a defensive bonus on the recipient? I am aware that the 3rd edition maneuverability chart would need to be thought about to decide on the exact bonus a character might gain, but bearing that in mind:

I was thinking maybe an AC- (assuming negative AC is better than positive) modifier while a character is affected by fly and is in a combat situation, and possibly a % check to avoid certain things like bash, kick, punch, and the like, due to the increased maneuverability - eg: A flying wizard has a greater chance to fly out of the way, either backstepping or rising above the opponent, when they see their opponent getting ready to kick at them. Other things could also be avoided - a dirt kick attempt, comapred to a successful % check on half of the wizard, would miss due to them not being there anymore.

I am sure several other spells could carry secondary affects as well.

Feedback or comments?

[Mingus]

I'm thinking on the after affect of fly. With no levitarion or a ring of feather fall, instead of coming down soft and easy as you do now, you should come daown hard. *CRASH* Ouch! Two broken legs and a concusion. And as how spells can't be stacked who know when those magical wings will dissapear and down you go like a mallard in duck season.

Also, what would happen if you were to be hit by a projectile while in the air? Would you take it like normal as if you were on the ground or would you falter loose concentration and fall? By concentration I don't mean in the spell but the actual flying part, ie even a grazed duck falters and tumbles mid air for a bit and if lucky it will recove before it hits the ground.

[Rhelian]

When the spell wears off you slowly descend a certain distance to the ground, if I remember the PHB right. Anything beyond a certain distance is then on a scaled list of damage - but as there isn't really a height consideration with the spell beyond RP, that doesn't seem to matter

[Talos]

I'm not so sure fly should really grant an AC bonus. You're not moving like a speeding bullet. If memory serves, a pc on the ground can run faster than you can fly. However, I think it might be interesting for the spell to give you the option to rise above the battle so that you cannot be engaged in melee (except of course by others with fly). This would perhaps put an ABOVE flag after the pc's name, so that people know that this pc is flying high above them. Naturally, the above pc could also not engage in melee.

It's possible this could be expanded to the levitate spell as well, with the difference being that with leviatate you can't move between rooms while above, but must come back down, while with fly you could. However, this opens many cans of worms with people flying through areas avoiding ground-based mobs, and possibly needing a room flag for hallways that does not permit people to be above. And of course there's issues like the fact that you couldn't be above in a room that is in the air, since there's no ground to be above, or underwater, since anyone could swim up to you. Something to consider though.

[Rhelian]

The above tag sounds like a good idea - and would also provide more meaningful wizard combat - a wizard floating above an opponent could lob spells at them without having to worry about getting an arm hacked off - range spells only though, touch spells wouldn't work as you're not actually touching them. It would also allow for people on the ground to use ranged weapons, like bows, to shoot at the character above them, so as to not provide an invulnerability to physical damage.

[Aklen]

If someone is "above", they should not be able to engage in melee combat, either, just as a suggestion. So while they can't fight, they can't fly back -- I think thats something that could possibly be done with fly as it is today... With some larger-sized mobs (such as giants/dragons) being able to swat you done even if you are high

[Talos]

Perhaps the last line of my first paragraph was unclear. It should be taken as 'Naturally, the above pc cannot engage in melee either.'

As for size, in the outdoors that has nothing to do with it. The pc can simply fly higher than the giant can reach. However, IF the giant is in a room sized for him, this falls under the 'can of worms' heading because it cannot be resolved in a simple and satisfactory manner. One would have to create several levels of above, which is just unwieldy. Essentially the builder would have to plan for what mob is in the room and flag the room appropriately, with the thought of whether the regular denizens can reach the ceiling.

As for dragons, all or very nearly all can fly.

The main problem is still the easy circumnavigation of mobs. What would be ideal is some form of code that could give a mob a default 'virtual missle weapon' that they could attack flying pcs with. Anything from a bow to a boulder.

[Mingus]

What's a certain distance?
- If fighting a giant, and cruising above his reach when the spell fails and you fall, are you low enough to avoid damage from the fall?

- Flying above a forest and the spell fails, are you high enough their to take damage from the tree branches and the ground?

- flying through the mountains. Since not specifically on a trail, if you fall you're not landing on flat surface but in all probability an incline. Would you die from the hit and roll to the vallye far below?

- passing over a bog/swamp/moore and the spell fails, do you come down with such force as to bury you on impact?(soft footing and all)


If something were to hits you while dodging in a fight. There would need to a be a spell fail check to determine if you recovered from the blow before hitting the ground.

One thing you can answer though, Do you sprout wings or is it a more Superman like flight?

As far as regulating the air space, so as not to make mob circomventing easy, of course dungeons/tunnels/indoor areas all have natural flight ceilings. Forest type areas can be made too difficult to fly through, from above only, so certain areas can not be entered while flying from above. Say mopuntins are just too windy to fly above the peaks, So you would need to stay close to the eath as possible or risk getting blown away and chance failling. And as far as water is concerned make it so you have to land and actually swim to be able to enter the area and stay in the area. the Old School of Magic is a possible example of wild anti-magic fields ranomly appearing and while it may not dispell the affect permantly,A recasting required) the sudden fail might drop you with out a soft landing. *OUCH*

[Nikkos]

I noted in the code updates that sanctuary no longer shows. However, when you cast it, it still shows a luminous aura spreading. Where does this aura go? {insert Twilight Zone music here}

Nikkos of the Moon

[Rhelian]

I remember on the old boards there was an idea of some spell affects showing when you looked/glanced at a person, below their body damage part. For example "Their skin looks like stone" "A glowing aura surrounds them" etc etc. Maybe that's on the way of being implemented? Even though it would add several lines of spam - barkskin, stoneskin, sanc, armour, dragonskin, shield - that's six lines already

[Rhelian]

What's a certain distance?
- If fighting a giant, and cruising above his reach when the spell fails and you fall, are you low enough to avoid damage from the fall?

Depends - you slowly drop a distance specified in the PHB (I'll look it up later) then after that, I believe it's free-fall

- Flying above a forest and the spell fails, are you high enough their to take damage from the tree branches and the ground?

Due to slow descent, the wizard could angle their path to a nearby tree with a sturdy enough branch to support their weight while they re-cast a spell, or figured out another way of getting out of their situation

- flying through the mountains. Since not specifically on a trail, if you fall you're not landing on flat surface but in all probability an incline. Would you die from the hit and roll to the vallye far below?

I don't think a wizard would fly that high - wind speed at that altitude would reduce maneuverability to a point where the wizard would be buffeted by winds or thrown off course

- passing over a bog/swamp/moore and the spell fails, do you come down with such force as to bury you on impact?(soft footing and all)

Depends on speed of descent and distance of fall

If something were to hits you while dodging in a fight. There would need to a be a spell fail check to determine if you recovered from the blow before hitting the ground.

I'd have to look at the PHB but I don't think that would be the case

One thing you can answer though, Do you sprout wings or is it a more Superman like flight?

Magical flight. The wizard simply floats or flies at a slow (to moderately fast) speed by thought, with maneuverability calculated as per the chart for flight in the PHB, although aerodynamically positioning your body will allow for lower wind resistance and faster speeds. Flying straight down, or on a downward slant, is faster than a horizontal line.

the Old School of Magic is a possible example of wild anti-magic fields ranomly appearing and while it may not dispell the affect permantly,A recasting required) the sudden fail might drop you with out a soft landing. *OUCH*

From what I can remember, wild magic fields sometimes do not affect spells already in affect on a wizard, but only when they are attempting to cast a spell inside of the area of effect. Also, if there were such fields introduced, a wizard could detect them by use of the detect magic spell, and thereby provide for any possible circumstances they could conceive of

[Drakenor]

I dont think that the flying and engaging in melee is a ood idea. Look at it this way, your a fighter, theres a mage, you use melee combat and never ranged (tempurians out there how are they going to fight?) what if you dont have a bow? You cant level 30 mage could literally kill your level 50 fighter. They just keep shooting magic missile, you stand and can do nothing but flee. I dont think it would be too fair.

[Lerytha]

Drakenor: In that case, I think the fighter deserves everything he gets. He shouldn't go up against a wizard, if he can't fight one. And if that wizard happens to gain an advantage from his/her magic (heaven forfend!), then I think it is following nicely with the Forgotten Realms setting, where wizards of a reasonably high level are a real pain to take out... a REAL pain...

Poor wizards have very little to protect from fighters, so leave us our superior magic flying thingymagig.

[Talamar]

Genre wise, I think the above flag would be fantastic, balance wise I think you'd run into problems.

Chances are you would end up seeing everyone possible flying, whether those that can cast Fly themselves, or others who've had it cast upon them, flying above, and raining down death with no fear of reprisal.

Now, speaking to Genre, that would probably be rather accurate. I can't image a wizard would stand toe to toe with a figther or a monster, if he could fly up and just drop a few fireballs on it's head.

Speaking to balance, you'd end up with many people getting the fly spell cast upon them, or casting it, running around in their parties, all using bows or spells to kill some of the tougher monsters.


Fly is great as it is, and though as my wizard I would love the added safety of an above tag, I think that for game balance it's probably pretty decent how it is.

My two cents at least.