Quest Help?

[Oting]

So I was doing a quest at Thann manor to help Mrs. Thann. I got through part of it, told me what was wrong with her (some word I had never heard of before) and told me to talk to someone else. Now, my client doesn't have a big scrollback buffer, so when I got there, I couldn't figure out the keyword to activate the quest. I'm assuming it's the name of the affliction but I have no clue what it can be now.

I'm basically stuck. I love this game, but when the quests don't give the needed information, I find myself getting lost and frustrated. Could someone on the forums here just tell me the name of the affliction? Or tell me how to regenerate all the quest dialog history for a quest?

I've been playing for hours looking for an item in a shop for an old quest, before finding this new quest which I now cannot complete. *sigh*

[Solaghar]

Try a command called 'qlog'. It tells you all the stuff going on in your quests at the moment, and it should change as you advance through each step of the quest. If you're in a specific area and you just want to look at the quests for that area, type 'qlog local' and it will only give you the quests going on there, rather than all the quests you're doing/have done.

[Oting]

I use the qlog command all the time. Often it has useful information, but in this instance it was missing some important keyword. Now that I've left the tower and handed my token over, I cannot re-enter to complete the quest. I guess that's just a failed quest then, forever stuck as uncompleted in the questlog?

Is the general practice to copy all quest text over to to a notepad? Or use a mud client with logging to capture everything?

[Tamryn]

Is the general practice to copy all quest text over to to a notepad?

I always do this. Some quests have everything you need in qlog, but many omit important (or even necessary) information, so I tend to copy down everything the mob(s) say to me.

(My fk.txt also has trainer/feat info, lists of planned feats for my characters, tables of various IC information my characters know or things they need to remember having done for RP, etc.)

Or use a mud client with logging to capture everything?

I would do this if I were less lazy.

[Harroghty]

The issue is that QLOGs include the information the builder intended. I tend to put more information, some older builders tended to put less. I updated that quest's log a little bit for you.

If you feel that you are stuck because of some short-coming or coded error in the quest then you can use the applications system. Otherwise there are some good suggestions here: checking QLOGs (which vary in quality) and keeping notes.

In general though, your PC can probably find some help from other PCs who may know something about the quest.

[Oting]

I updated that quest's log a little bit for you.

Thanks. I'll refer to it. They wouldn't let me back in the tower though, either. Is that a coding hurdle or can I do something to get back in myself?

Again, thanks for your help.

[Harroghty]

No, many of the older quests are less forgiving. I put you back in with the Blackstaff.

[Oting]

Thank you!

[Raona]

Just to be clear on the more general topic, though: pretty much every quest has the opportunity for failure built into it. In some, this is the result of losing a battle or answering a riddle incorrectly. In others (particularly those where you are logically pressed for time and/or the information is key, like religion quests and the one in question here) failure is designed to follow from forgetting key things. In all these cases it was the intent of the builder that you might fail and you generally have to suck it up and ICly say "oops!" when it happens - it happened to Raona a short time ago and it was frustrating, I understand! If you believe it to come about as a result of a coding mistake or bug then you can report it to Bug Reporting. We will usually fix the issue in the code (if we find one) but not always re-up you for the quest. (Put another way: this is a NOT a good way to get another shot at the quest, but it is good for everyone if truly bugged quests are fixed.) If you believe that you have failed a quest as the builder intended, but you think it is a bad quest design, you can suggest it be changed...but it is unlikely to happen, as we are generally deferential to builders' visions and the time they put into their work. (It feels a little like over-painting/dyeing Mona Lisa's hair hot pink to make her more in keeping with the times, ya know?) Again, Bug Reporting would be the place for this, even though it is a suggestion. That is because Bug Reporting keeps reports with sensitive (IC and quest!) information out of public view. So if you make a report like this, you are unlikely to ever see it again, and that's by design...but rest assured that all reports are looked into and taken seriously!

On a related note: Can you ICly ask someone else for what you have forgotten? It's a fuzzy line. You have to ask yourself what makes IC sense. In this case Ms. Thann is deathly ill and certainly if someone else went to visit her they would be asked for help as well. (Indeed, ICly if you went back to her and asked they would certainly reiterate to you what she was dying of!) Thus asking others about her malady and/or otherwise seeking IC help makes sense. But if there is a quest about killing the vampire in a village, ICly this quest is meant to happen once (ICly there is one vampire, not a family dynasty such that the need to kill them off is ever-present, even though the code works that way) and it doesn't make IC sense to ask someone else how they killed it, or where it was, or what have you.

[Gwain]

On a related note: Can you ICly ask someone else for what you have forgotten? It's a fuzzy line. You have to ask yourself what makes IC sense. In this case Ms. Thann is deathly ill and certainly if someone else went to visit her they would be asked for help as well. (Indeed, ICly if you went back to her and asked they would certainly reiterate to you what she was dying of!) Thus asking others about her malady and/or otherwise seeking IC help makes sense. But if there is a quest about killing the vampire in a village, ICly this quest is meant to happen once (ICly there is one vampire, not a family dynasty such that the need to kill them off is ever-present, even though the code works that way) and it doesn't make IC sense to ask someone else how they killed it, or where it was, or what have you.

Sometimes its just nice to be nice, even if you're doing it ic.

[Casamir]

It's a case by case basis, nudging people in the right direction, but not doing the work for them.

You might not ask how someone slew the one-time only, uber phoenix king, but one might ask more generic questions about slaying a lava lichlord in general or how they might coat an ice blade with fairy essence to slay the king, as the wizard npc never told anyone it had to be done at midnight under a quartermoon on the third Tuesday of deepwinter.

Whereas if the wizard mentioned you could also coat the blade while riding a pseudodragon through the mean streets of Balabel, and they weren't paying attention, seems like the phoenix king might win this one.

[Raona]

Yes - Just to be clear, I'm with Gwain and Casamir on this! If you see someone struggling (OOCly), by all means do what you can ICly to nudge them in the right direction. (I've been the beneficiary of such nudging myself!) But never OOCly discuss a quest save for bug or syntax discussions, and restrict explicit IC discussions to cases where it makes IC sense.

[Oting]

Thanks for the encouragement and clarification, all. It was a frustrating experience, but I've moved past it. In this case, though, I think it's more than just me being a bad (or new) player.

I had a terrible scrollback buffer in my client, so whatever was said was lost after I moved a few rooms. Yes, that's my fault and I can ICly play that up to me being forgetful, or easily distracted (Squirrel!) The quest was completely unforgiving of this mistake though. Once I entered the tower and gave my token away, I could not re-enter the tower. Also, when I went back to the quest givers, they would not acknowledge me at all.

So I agree that there should be an option to fail (philosophically), but I don't know if I quite find it fair to allow failure when very reasonable attempts to recover (dialog with the quest-givers, etc.) is not at option.

Just my 2 coppers.

[Rhangalas]

I usually have zMUD set to log everything to a text document from the time I log on until the time I log off. This serves two purposes:

- Everything said to my PC involving quests is recorded.
- All RP is logged automatically. (Very useful if you're into the 'Funny Moments' thread.)

Don't feel bad though, I'm in the same boat due to losing one of said logs.