Waterdeep

Tierney · Post by **Tierney** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:21 am

Personally I am glad that my character doesn't have a detect evil ability. That way I can choose to like or dislike people on thier rp, not on some aura. Usually I can tell withen 30 seconds whether a char is 'evil' or not, but unless the 'evil' char does something directly to anger my character, I'll continue to treat them the same as I would a 'good' character.

Tychina · Post by **Tychina** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:39 pm

I agree, I wouldn't want to know. Not that way. For the most part, my character doesn't give a hoot what alignment people are. And it makes things rather interesting when you make friends with someone, and have been traveling around with them, helping each other out, then find out that they are good/evil (whichever you aren't) or say, that their chosen deity is a direct enemy to yours.. then you have a whole new ballgame for RP, how will your character react? Will S/he opt to remain friends, or slip into neutral and just be aquaintences? Or will you go all out and be open enemies? And then you have the other person, and how THEY will react, while your chaarcter may choose to remain friends, perhaps garnering disfavor from their deity, what if the other person decides they just cannot be friends any more? A little suspence and suprise, adds a bit of something I think.

As for Waterdeep, and people saying there isn't enough places to go to find people to RP with outside waterdeeps square.. eh personally, I dislike waterdeep, it's too active, to busy. It gets mildly annoying when everytime my character meets someone and starts having a conversation, they try and drag her off to waterdeep to sit and chat. If we are near waterdeep I can see, but in Berdusk? Why go to waterdeep? My character is a bit like me, ok, a lot like me, she does not like or do well in crowds. I go to Waterdeep to shop, or for errands, or to sit in the font and read while waiting on a newbie to apear from below so I can.. well rp hehe but very rarely will I go to the square, unless I need something. There are people to be found to RP with outside of Waterdeep, it just takes a bit of time and effort to find us

Sparlow · Post by **Sparlow** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:55 pm

Hmm...some interesting points being made here.

Okay, first off, Waterdeep is NOT a purely 'good' city. Although it is officially designated Lawful Good, in every major city worldwide, even IRL, there is a small element of crime. Whether this is a syndicate with vast shadowy influences in the underworld to a small band of roving thugs, crime is going to be more or less unstoppable.

The same applies for Evil people in Waterdeep. Evil's going to be present no matter WHAT you do to try and stop it. Even in a goodly city, evil people will crop up once in a while, especially in a city like Waterdeep where you have a thriving underground criminal force (Skullport). So you can expect to meet anyone from Elaith Craulnober, an infamous underground arms and contrabadn smuggler, to the insane Halastar, to even just simple thugs and kneecappers.

Now, regarding Detect Evil. Let's be honest, this is a game where alignment really means so little other than a guideline to RP. And this is true even IRL, what is evil in one land is normal and socially accepted elsewhere. Case in point: In Africa, it is customary to drink the blood of a freshly slain lion. In England or the Americas in the 1600s, that would have been considered the height of witchcraft and been termed evil. The same applies to major religions, some consider failing to wash hands a major sin, and entire holy wars have been launched simply because a member of another religion has been dubbed 'evil'.

That said, Detect Evil is not a true/false thing. There are many shades of evil, and it is dependant on your society. I know that on some of my characters I've done or said things that would be strongly considered to be very evil if anyone else said them, but he would still fail to register as an evil character.

For paladins, who have a very black and white view of the world, I suppose that Detect Evil is a reasonable approach to take. There are no shades of grey for them. Myself, however, I find that it is much more entertaining and challenging to try and find someone's alignment out through their actions, rather than with magic. After all, IRL, you can't just cast such a spell on a person. We all have a little dark side to us. If I'm in a bad mood that day, am I going to show up more evil than otherwise? And there are degrees of 'evil', if you like. Which is worse, an assassin with a code of conduct or a murderous orc? A society that ritually kills those too weak to fight is considered 'evil', but is that more evil than one that simply lets internal attrition wear down it's members, like the orcs?

Some things to think about when you are looking at alignment. Honestly, can you really quantify evil except as someone who has a set of view different from your own?

Satine · Post by **Satine** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:34 am

Hello friends, i´m a newbie player and i have tried mapping Waterdeep with the Zmud automapper but...it´s impossible, the rooms are linked in a crazy sequence. I have desisted to make maps, well it has to be said that the mud is more realistic isn´t it?... but i´m lost all time. I can´t go out from the temple of Oghma without be lost in a few seconds.

Please need advices from experienced players to play without maps. Some tricks to explore Waterdeep without be lost in a few seconds.
I´ll take any suggestion!

Thank you all, friends.

Granel · Post by **Granel** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:45 am

There are maps on the website and ways you can rp ic to find your wat around by using the map.
I know it can be hard at first but streets become so familliare in name and form after a while that you snap right to it

Also...
Make sure if you can use it that if you have trouble going round that your Vt interface is up and running so that you can see what you're doing a bit better.

the url to the maps is http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/maps/maps.html
Please make sure to rp using the map icly and not oocly

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:47 am

I would say the easiest way to learn the city is to walk it. Don't go to far from the temple just far enough that you can retrace your steps. Start by going to the square and back. Notice what shops are on that path. then branch out from there. Make sure to learn well and remember important things like how to get to the gates of the city and other places important to you.

Rhelian · Post by **Rhelian** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:01 am

Blythe would probably have to confirm this, but from what I've gathered Waterdeep was set out on a grid, and then the shops were added, making it fairly unmappable

Also, try purchasing a map of Waterdeep and refering to that, it really does help.

As for tips and tricks, try finding a few major north-south or east-west roads, then try to place everything in relation to those. That way if you get lost you can head in a direction till you find one of your selected roads, and get a basic idea of where things are.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:17 am

Back in the age when I made my first character here, I tried to use points of interest to move about. For example, remember that the square is so far this direct from the newbie temple. When you first start out, you don't need to know every sidestreet and backalley around, just enough points if interest to get a general idea. Found it much easier to remember places than streets in any city, irl or mudding. Besides, whats easier to ask directions for for, Sull Street or the market square?
Just a thought,

N.R.

Satine · Post by **Satine** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:26 pm

thank you!

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:03 pm

Hey, ive been looking for a map of Waterdeep, not necesarrily the one on the website as im not sure what they based that on, but an official map of Waterdeep, ive looked on the web but couldnt find on, would anyone here know where I could get a full map of Waterdeep?

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:26 am

Thank you, that helps very much =)

Lasakar · Post by **Lasakar** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:56 am

I read today your policy about Waterdeep. It simply says (short form here) that you have to be friendly and nice in Waterdeep because it is generally a good aligned city.

Now my question:

Is it generally forbitten for players to plot and cause conficts in Waterdeep?

I hope you don't missunderstand my question. I don't mean running through the city and pushing weaker chars around, steal all what is not nailed down, killing mobs, yelling names at others, fool newbies, PKs with stupid excuses (eg. "I am evil, isn't that enough?") and so on.
Helping newbies and be generally friendly OOC is no question for me.

This question is meant for possible future plots there, something with a story and RPed 100% out. And most important, not with random players, people who don't want to be involved or clueless newbies.

Or must I see Waterdeep as some kind of OOC area for evil chars?

PS: Sorry for my strange English but I am from Germany.

Jerigo · Post by **Jerigo** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:19 am

I can't answer your questions, but I do have to say that I never would have guessed that English wasn't your first language until I read the last line. I wish I were that fluent.

Ursan · Post by **Ursan** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:33 pm

You might want to grab a thesaurus when you're looking for words to describe those new to the game though

'Fool' and 'clueless' newbie is a bit strong...

Lasakar · Post by **Lasakar** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:59 pm

I am self a clueless newbie.

And with "to fool" I mean to cheat or outwit a person. Should no description of the person.
I mean something like I saw in another Mud:

>Newbie says "Hey! My riding beast is not moving! What shall I do?"
>Nice guy says "Yeah. I know that. These beasts are stubborn. No prob.
Just dismount and kick the beast once. After that it will move!"
...
A minute later:

>A mean looking riding beast stands here, lightly scratched.
The Nice Guy stands here.
>The Nice Guy gets coins from the corpse of the Newbie
>The Nice Guy gets backpack form the corpse of the Newbie.
...

That is what I mean with fool a newbie.

Lasakar · Post by **Lasakar** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:36 pm

OK thanks. Good to know.

In the meantime...

After contacting Mystra a sad looking man turns back to the portal.
"Ok sweethearts", he is saying to the huge army of tana'ri under his command, which is still waiting at the Plain of infinite Portals, first layer of the Abyss.
"They don't want us in Waterdeep! Free weekend for all. Maybe next week. Who wants to play Scrabble with me?"

EDIT: Found the other discussion:
http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... .php?t=785

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:28 pm

One or two of my chars are chaotic neu. They enjoy WD because they can blend easily.

Acetrus · Post by **Acetrus** » Fri May 21, 2004 4:55 am

The ability to detect evil has always irked me slightly, for several reasons. First and foremost is the fact that good and evil are relative terms based on social standards that widely vary from place to place.

Even placing good and evil into a much simpler black and white world, there must inevitably be shades of gray. I suppose it's safe to assume that no one character is perfect, and rare is the person that has never made a mistake in their life. Therefore, everyone would show at least some degree of the taint of evil, though it may be faint. By the same logic, even the most evil character may have performed a good deed or two, which would thin out their aura at least a little.

However, I do not have much of a problem with people judging at first sight. I think I can safely say that MANY people do the same thing in real life, though they seem to try not to be obvious about it. It's a pretty realistic thing to do with almost any character.

It also seems to me that someone who instantly judges poorly of every person with a red aura might have a little taint themselves. Just my 2 copper.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Fri May 21, 2004 12:53 pm

Acetrus wrote: I suppose it's safe to assume that no one character is perfect, and rare is the person that has never made a mistake in their life. Therefore, everyone would show at least some degree of the taint of evil, though it may be faint.

I agree everyone is not perfect, but if a good person makes a MISTAKE it is not something that was done on purpose hince the word mistake. So I do not believe that this would been a reason for them to be tainted of evil. Say in a fight someone gets confused and kills someone that was good. It was an accident, thought it is wrong and would have to be dealt with ICly, it does not make them an evil person. IMO evil is in the heart. It is when someone makes the decision to murder that person and does it without remorse, I think it would then be justifiable to consider them to be, at least somewhat, evil. But as I said that is just my opinion.

Beshaba · Post by **Beshaba** » Sat May 22, 2004 3:26 pm

Everyone makes judgements every day in their life, if you try to claim that you have never made a judgement, then you are probably doing a bit of lying to yourself. There is nothing inherently good or evil about making judgements.

We judge people often on their first appearance, depending on the person, that judgement will vary as will the things that have spur the judgement and the strength of the judgement. Walk around outside (you know outside, the big room with the scary bright ball of light) and stop and think about how you react to the people you see.

I would like to note something, though. An alighment in the evil range indicates a mindset and a long history of behavior. One bad thing isn't going to make you evil, not even a string of bad things is going to make you evil. It takes a lifetime and more than that, it takes a mindset that rules over your intentions.

Waterdeep

Problem with THE HUGE CITY OF WATERDEEP

Waterdeep Map

Friendly Waterdeep