Cosmetic Templates & Player Economy

[Baeus]

Item templates

One enjoyable feature I’ve encountered in other RPGs is the recent trend that allows you to take a target item and transfer the physical, “look” from another that serves as an image template. This enables the player to completely control their image, and potentially adds more value to player crafted items often overlooked because they are inferior to random enchanted drops in regard to stats. Each crafting tier could have formulae gained thru quests, further broken down by region and race.

In order for this to work the target item must be the same category as the cosmetic item used as a template. For example, a heavy chain hauberk can be altered by a suit of heavy dark steel chain hauberk but a half-plate breastplate could not be used in this case.
In front of the appropriate npc and both pieces of armor in the inventory the player could enter something like the following command which names target and template item:

Alter 1.haub 2.haub

Upon entering the command a confirmation string describing what the change is going to create would appear and ask the player if they wish to finalize the change with a yes or no. Upon answering yes, the target item retains the original statistics but takes on the long and short descriptions of the template item. Racial, class and or faith requirements would still apply when attempting to use special items as a transfer template. In other words, if you cannot normally use the item you cannot use it as a template to alter the target object.

Player Economy

There is value to fluff and people WILL pay good coin for gear with a gorgeous description that fits what they had in mind for their persona. In a world described with words as opposed to images this is probably an understatement. By thinking of player crafted gear in terms of image control use, you preserve the incentive for going out and adventuring for items in dungeons and quests. Still, there is something to be said for being able to craft viable gear for your level range to survive appropriate content.

A game either has a player run economy or it doesn’t. With an automated economy the best items in the game come from quests/dungeons with a certain level range in mind. In this case, player crafted gear acts as a filler between one dungeon level range and the next. I don’t “think” this is what FK is currently doing as the staff seems to want the rewards to come from adventuring, which is potentially a group activity. Nothing wrong with that in essence, until you regard the viability of player crafted wares short of the Grand Master items. After close to 400 hours between two characters I encountered one person who eluded to the fact that he was a crafter and he didn’t seem interested in making anything. In other games I would have encountered active crafters almost immediately, aggressively advertising their services.

In a player run economy the reverse is true in regard to automation. The best items in the game come from player crafters, with gaps occurring between level based tiers, level requirements to equip items and dungeon drops serving as fillers in-between the tier gaps. If anything, the dungeon drops possess unique qualities such as special verbs, glowing, or action procs such as moving on their own, emitting sound strings, random speech, etc. The player crafted items created in such a system remain useful from start to finish throughout the crafter's career. This can be quite a rewarding experience for the players, who will often be optimally geared for their level range and the crafters, who will enjoy the notoriety their useful skills quickly earn them.

Even in a high magic setting such as The Forgotten Realms, magical items are still supposed to be uncommon, the bulk being recovered from ruins of an age when magic was even stronger. The creation of magical items is supposed to be and incredibly difficult and draining experience for the crafter and only a handful of people are alive that can create things above a +1. The only way to do that in a multiplayer game is to apply restrictions that will dissuade all but the most dedicated from mastering the trade. In our pen and paper D&D campaign, the DM regulated player crafted magical items by:

A. Assigning an experience point cost based on the power/level of the item.
B. Limited the number of formulae that could be learned each level
C. Assigned a substantial but not ridiculous construction time for each item.
D. Assigned a material cost also based on level of the item.

In short, you would not stock up on materials and mass produce magical items to become the high fantasy equivalent of Walmart. It would cost you coin, construction time and experience to make these items. Thus, you would still have to get out there and adventure before becoming a temporary hermit and crafting. Do this enough and level loss would simulate physical atrophy and the loss of perishable skills.

Another thing you often see in player run economies is interdependence, where a crafter needs materials from other disciplines to assemble their goods. This isn’t a problem with highly populated worlds with very active crafters being common, but it would be dangerous in low populations for obvious reasons. I think it’s better for each craft to be self-sufficient and focused.

[Aysa]

I'm going to toss my two cents in here, and y'all can take it for what it's worth.

I'm not quite sure what the "cosmetic template" is, but a point was made that I found to be useful. This is a text based medium, and while not everyone will type 'look' and actually read what the description says (most of the times, they're looking to see if injured and that's about it). However, in my particular case, I like to get descriptive - if for no other benefit but my own.

Our descriptions limit what we can type in there, and rightfully so. Our equipment can change on a whim (much like Aysa's desire to change from one outfit to another). Aysa is very much like a Sunite as she tries to be a follower of Oghma in her regards for appearances. And I can accept the fact that most of the magic items are going to be obtained through quests and such. Again, this is all fine and dandy.

So I guess I would like to see a little more thought be put into the description of objects obtained through quests. Black wizard robes. Description: They are covered in shimmering black runes. Is the robe more like a Jedi robe? A graduation robe? A bath robe? If it's considered black wizard robes, and the shimmering black runes are what make it black... what's the underlying color? Is it black on black?

Now, I know... for some people, they won't care. Just put a description and go. No one is going to read it. They barely read my desc. But maybe it's me, but for my own sake of what I visualize for Aysa (the PC)... I'd like to know what the robes look like. So if it is too much hassle to type out a long description for a set of black robes, maybe you can give the player the opportunity to expound on the current desc.

Black wizards robes. A wizards garment made of the best black silk from Silkhole. The slinky material clings to the wearer's physique much like a cocktail dress. There's a high slit on the side, exposing the leg and allowing for full range of movement. However, the most important or prominent feature of the robe are the black onyx applique in the shape of magical runes. The onyx applique shimmer and dance in the right lighting.

This is just a thought, a comment of sorts. Take it. Leave it. I'm ok either way.

[Mele]

I personally prefer they are not too descriptive. This way I can make what I'd visualize them as through my emotes.

Blahblah tugs on the long sleeves of her silk robe.

Blahblah adjusts the high neckline of her robe.

Blahblah plays with a tassle on her belt as she speaks.

Blahblah bunches up the material of her long skirt.

Etc. :)

[Baeus]

That's why there are long and short descriptions. You will never see the long description unless you examine the object, which some may be prompted to if the short description of is intriguing enough.

I was simply suggesting ways that would make player crafting desirable past the hobbyist activity it seems to be currently. Transferring long and short descriptions from one object to another of like quality would be one way of doing that. It may be a little thing to most and a moot point for wealthy high level players but I rather like avoiding the multicolor circus clown look.

The other way would be to charge crafters experience to make increasingly powerful magical items as a control mechanism in a truly player driven economy. Random drops placed in shops by other people really isn't the same thing.

[Hrosskell]

Personally, I like the idea of crafted items competing with our current top-end gear (and eventually surpassing it), but the only ideas I've come up to implement that are patently MMO-ish. Bigger monsters, bigger rewards, etc.--with those rewards tying into crafting instead of being hand-out RMIs.

[Baeus]

Personally, I like the idea of crafted items competing with our current top-end gear (and eventually surpassing it), but the only ideas I've come up to implement that are patently MMO-ish. Bigger monsters, bigger rewards, etc.--with those rewards tying into crafting instead of being hand-out RMIs.

So, in other words rare crafting components that drop from boss type creatures? This would also create a market where people could sell to the crafters.

[Gwain]

This happens in a few places right now, and its terrific, I'd like to see more of it like special ores or skins of animals.

[Hrosskell]

So, in other words rare crafting components that drop from boss type creatures? This would also create a market where people could sell to the crafters.

This is precisely what I mean. I've mentioned before that an ideal scenario for an FK "end-game" would entail classic boss fights--creatures that had massively inflated HP but did regulated damage, possibly with damage spikes/avoidable mechanics to keep support classes and damage soakers on their toes. A few tiers of this system (4-5 bosses per tier) that demanded groups to tackle would provide rare materials useful for crafting (AND enchanting); this would go a long way to reeling people who have hit 50 and idled out right back in. It would add another layer of customisation and meaning to the choices you make in character, and pretty much everyone could find a niche in "raiding."

Of course, this is patent MMO ideology and game design, and it may not have that effect or be desired here. Personally? I think it works. Millions of people--many of the players here included--indulge in this type of gameplay and enjoy it, and it's not like roleplay is going to dissolve because the game has a bit more game to it.

[Baeus]

So, in other words rare crafting components that drop from boss type creatures? This would also create a market where people could sell to the crafters.

Of course, this is patent MMO ideology and game design, and it may not have that effect or be desired here. Personally? I think it works. Millions of people--many of the players here included--indulge in this type of gameplay and enjoy it, and it's not like roleplay is going to dissolve because the game has a bit more game to it.

I don't mind this type of control mechanism to crafting. As you say it has worked wonderfully elsewhere. However, I think the main thing here would be a tier system regulated by clear level restrictions on items and an experience point cost, similar to the way it costs you to train a skill. Otherwise, the value of actually adventuring for your gear becomes diminished and you see mass production. Example. Instead of going out to fight that boss capable of casting instant death spells and or draining experience levels, many people would go out and grind on things they can easily kill for 3 hours to amass enough coin to buy a crafted piece of gear. It starts to remove the incentive to go out and seek new challenges and take more risk.

I have no problem with true player dominated economies. Dark Age of Camelot had such a system and it was glorious. However, world drops need to have some redeeming value above and beyond what you can get from crafters or it will negatively effect game play. They should either fill in the gaps between the tiers of crafted gear or possess unique qualities such as verbs, procs, visual descriptions, etc.

[Hrosskell]

I think FK has deterrents to mass production already built in; the players have policed high-tier items in a sense, that sense being that they don't trade top tier items for gold. I've offered and been offered massive amounts of coin for singular objects and been on both sides of the word no--mostly because I know and the other person knows that you can go make that coin elsewhere. That, and the difficulty of getting 5+ people together multiple times consistently (without the sort of drive this might incur, that is) is a really difficult bar. Getting 5+ people together who can slay top-end monsters consistently would be even more difficult--but at least it would incentivize that type of gathering, which might do wonders for our community.

[Trillarel]

Black wizards robes. A wizards garment made of the best black silk from Silkhole. The slinky material clings to the wearer's physique much like a cocktail dress. There's a high slit on the side, exposing the leg and allowing for full range of movement. However, the most important or prominent feature of the robe are the black onyx applique in the shape of magical runes. The onyx applique shimmer and dance in the right lighting.

This is just a thought, a comment of sorts. Take it. Leave it. I'm ok either way.

This is a cool idea, and being able to use it would be great. Note, I'm not forcing anyone to do it, just having such an option would be great!