Second Attack vs. Rapid Shot Feat

[Aysa]

Question...

Rangers are able to take second, third, and fourth attacks if they acquire the skill. Through use, I've found that it doesn't matter if I use a sword or a bow... I'll get the second attack.

Now, there's a feat out there called "Rapid Shot" Feat. It says in the notes of the feat: This feat will be useless to you if you can't or have not trained the relevant (usually second) multiple attack skill.

Does this mean if I have two attacks per round, with Rapid Shot... I can fire off four arrows?

[Yemin]

I suppose an added question should be why its designed not to give you your third and fourth attack, even without rapid shot. Since thats what it seems to be implying.

If this isn't the case then ignore.

[Ungtar]

If you have two attacks normally as a ranger, and you pick up the rapid shot then you will have THREE attacks.

In theory, since the third attack is by feat instead of a skill shot, it should always process.

If you had four attacks (max for a ranger), then this would bring you up to 5 when you're using your bow.

(Bonus info not related to your question: a pet has 1-2 attacks to add to that total, bringing you UP past the standard fighter in damage potential.)

The only problem I have found with the bow is that there's no way to boost damage. 1d6 each shot, meaning even if you land all your shots you still did a max damage of 30 (4 + rapidshot). A high strength warrior with a melee weapon will have outdamaged you generally by their 2nd or 3rd attack.

Other than that, I love the bow. It's a lot of fun and very tactical. You just keep bumping up against those same limitations of damage potential.

[Aysa]

Agreed on the damage potential... but then again, if I wanted to do max damage, then I would play a warrior. If I wanted to cultivate a style of fighting (such as bow fighting from an elf), then I'll go with that. I know I'll never be the fearsome warrior. But I hope my RP style makes it so people think "She'd be good to have out in the wild, etc".

[Ungtar]

Agreed on the damage potential... but then again, if I wanted to do max damage, then I would play a warrior. If I wanted to cultivate a style of fighting (such as bow fighting from an elf), then I'll go with that. I know I'll never be the fearsome warrior. But I hope my RP style makes it so people think "She'd be good to have out in the wild, etc".

It's very good rp and it's fun in a metagame sort of way as well. But yeah, you'll rely on groups heavily. That's what I do with my ranger, anyway.

[Yemin]

I've seen composite arrows around. and just assumed the composite bows were behind ranger guards and stuff? are there no composite bows at all?
If so thats a major oversight.

[Gwain]

There are composite bows out there.

[hasryn]

The bow is great. The thing we lack is magical ammunition. Or magical bows for that matter. I can only remember seeing less than what you count on one hand around. We could use a source of that and it would help those archers out there.

[Yemin]

I've never seen a magical bow given as a reward for a quest which makes me think they may not be part of the random item drop at all. Only magical bows i've seen is on mobs but as for magical ammunition, they should probably be as rare as truly magical weapons are.

By truly magical I mean weapons that come with a flaming / frost / holy enchantment.
Though I can appreciate the much coveted 50 arrow set with returning and indestructable enchantments on them.

[Ungtar]

I would just prefer to see your damage with the bow tied to your skill with it.

Sucks if you're a grandmaster with a bow and your expert shot still only does 1d6.

[Aysa]

I don't know if you can change the mechanics of the game like that. I mean, you don't see more damage being done with a blade grandmaster.

But yes, the mechanics of the game favor using STR based weapons because of the added damage bonus. Technically, the composite bow is supposed to add the STR bonus but... I believe there's a coding issue with that. And because very few of us use a bow, it has a low priority.

So yes, the use of a bow... or staying with an iconic weapon for a Priestess of Lolth such as the whip... it has to be a RP decision to use the weapon, not a min/max decision.

I just wish I could have the Hollywood quiver (and never run out of arrows) -- though the last two movies I've seen actually had archers run out of arrows.

[Ungtar]

You probably can't easily change that. In a diku base combat model you could easily slip it in but not sure about this heavily modified code.

I'd say probably the easiest would be to add a special feat which would take the numeric value range for your skill level and add it as a damage bonus. Or simply let the special feat add damage on its own as several do already. That means if you've invested one of your feat points into that then you REALLY want to be an archer.

I'm all about the RP with certain weapons and styles, but I also hate being gimped because of it. On a RP mud, you shouldn't be "punished" for roleplaying by having to use a nerf weapon.

The biggest value I find right now in the bow is I can get 1 round of combat in "free of risk" for mobs that aren't in my room. 2 rounds free if I stand off further and plunk at them. That's sometimes an advantage, particularly if you're skilled enough to not miss those shots before the critter arrives.

I used to think the bigger advantage was being able to stand somewhere relatively safe and pull single mobs out of a large pack, but that can be also accomplished with a throwing weapon. Clearly other people have learned that too since I come across throwing weapons laying on the ground quite frequently in certain areas.

[Yemin]

Ranged combat damage wise will always do a fair amount less damage than straight up melee combat purely because FK is based on 3.5e and the main class that uses ranged combat in 3.5e is..., frankly a joke comparatively to others. The only proof you need is that FK rangers are never pure ranged combatants. At least the ones that care about being useful over RP.

This doesn't mean that ranged combat has to suck on FK though, just means it needs a bit of help by having a few features added from dnd that don't seem to exist...., like returning - indestructable arrows so you never run out of arrows, and a quiver of flaming, that enchants every arrow put into it with an extra 1D6 damage.
Perhaps also branching out a sliver and grasping a few path finder feats that will add damage per shot, like:
Deadly aim;
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... aim-combat

Focused shot;
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... hot-combat

Disclaimer:
This topic is about combat improvement, don't bash me for bashing ranger rp .

[Hrosskell]

I actually really like deadly aim, and think it'd make a nice addition if it worked comparable to FK's power attack. It could be a standard +3/-3 for lighter weapons (shortbows, light/hand crossbows, thrown weapons) then +6/-3 for heavy weapons (think composite bows/longbows/heavy crossbows). I think it'd give a nice edge and a clear balancing point for dexterity-focused archer types.

[hasryn]

I think the mechanics right now that magical bows cant do anything than bonus to hit damage would be based on ammunition. I'm speculating though I can't say for 100% bows need some love but those dedicated to using them can be superbly fun!

[Rhangalas]

Yeah, it gives you an extra ranged attack at a penalty, but you can offset the penalty with magic, feats, and weapon skill.