Wands

[Yemin]

This of course... poses a bit of a problem since wands like a few other types of items in game aren't labeled as to their purpose. Which, If i'm honest can be annoying at times but I'm all for that kind of thing because its more descriptive than.. a wand of wish.

It would be useful though I think for some shop keepers to identify and tell you the properties of what they sell via identify spell, or just coded ability. Either way they'd need to be coded to say what a specific item number on the list does.

This is a unique problem with items like wands unlabled herbs, and unlabeled potions that cannot be read, or examined to seek their purpose... so they end up not being used all that much. I don't see many people spending 20+ platinum on an item that they don't know of its properties.

[Mele]

Please don't post IC info in suggestions.

IE: Mobs' names, locations and items they sell. None of those things were even relevant to the suggestion in this case, as it were.

[Yemin]

My bad,

Any thoughts on the topic at hand though?

[Mele]

Mountain of a molehill. :)

I'd rather have area contests, serious bug fixes, imm run roleplays and new areas than not to have to use identify.

[Yemin]

Well..., wands are a part of the game and can influence the outcome of all those things I think. I believe at the moment their use is rather insignificant, which is a shame since wands in fantasy are iconically one of the most common utility items that if not everyone can use, wizards and magi whip out and go tap tap fixed.

Also a shame at the number of them just sitting there. I'm not someone who's familiar with the mechanics of how these items are generated but if their not going to see use then why have them in shops at all taking up server space when for example, if we're generous and say there's a 1 in 4 chance you'll get an item you'll actually want to use from that shop, you'll need to waste some 72 platinum first.

I'm also not really clear on the time investiture it would need to give a few shopkeepers code for the identify spell and them to output whatever they get from that when someone says "tell me about ###". To indicate a number on their LIST

Could you elaborate as to roughly the effort involved in that?

[Yemin]

To resummarize for people who didn't see the original post.

I came across a shop that had some 100 or so items on its list, all wands and my immediate thought process was... well, someone built this shop and by the descriptions and such, didn't really mean it to be a raffle house, but due to the limited identification properties of the shopkeeper thats what it essentially is because irregardless of imagination and roleplay, a PC is still going to need the shop keeper to give them a clue as to what a ruby tipped oak wand does before they blow some 20+ platinum on it. Or some other fix like having the PCs able to interact with items in a shop past examining them and such, since examine won't tell you anything useful about a wand's functions.

[Algon]

Here is my thought on it...I have been here a long time now and I can count the times I have used a wand on one hand. It is fun for RP at times, but I find wands in general just about useless...just my opinion on that though, I have seen a few people that seem to like them.

The way the wands work, it would be a pretty time consuming project to have the shop keeper be able to identify the wand and tell you the properties. Being as they are not wands normally sold in his inventory, but they are RMI wands that have been sold to him. So you could not have a set speech programmed for him to say when you ask about the 'Blue wand'. I would much rather see the builder spend those several hours doing something more fun for the game.

[Yemin]

A fair input. I suppose wands in general are an area of the game that haven't sparked a builder to take up their cause as of yet then?

[Algon]

Speaking as a builder myself, I just do not really see the point in the them. While they are amazing in tabletop, in FK they are just very lack luster. A fireball spell in FK is not the same as a fireball spell in tabletop, so they are more of a novelty than anything I think.

I would much rather work on a new area then try to deal with creating new code to have a shop keeper tell me what a wand does, since only about 2% of the FK population actually make use of them.

[Gwain]

A brief history of wands in the game in my experience:

Up until the rmi system was in place there were very few instances of mystery wands that would need to be identified or used on the fly, most wands you could get would need to be purchased and were clearly labelled. Most people did not use these much, a few did now and then but not many, they were expensive.

The new RMI system made wands a random reward along with random potions and weapons, most people can't or don't bother to use wands, so they sell them to a merchant(s) mobile that will buy them.

Personally I don't sell my wands to mobs, I use them if I can or give them away in trades or try to attach them to sales to other pc's. Otherwise I hoard them because they usually weigh next to nothing and smote using them as toothpicks

To me, its not an issue in itself to get rewarded a mystery wand, I don't see the need to have them identified before you buy because usually there are few spells attached to the ones we have and there are still old identified ones for sale here and there.

So I live with it and focus on more dynamic projects.

My advice to anyone that is truly vexed by these wands is to build or design an area or part of an area that deals with this issue, maybe with a swap system that uses wands as currency for rare items or has a mobile that will identify them for a fee? I have no desire to build or design this right now, but if you feel passionate about it, I'd tell you to apply to build an area and incorporate it in.

[Yemin]

Would a reduction in the prices of store sold wands be out of the question?

Also... any zone like that should probably adress the wand /staff making trade that wizards have be deprived off so far

[Terageld]

I don't want to have wands removed as I find them incredibly interesting. I think the way to bring wands a bigger role into the game is to make them easily usable for anyone. Let's take a look at the Elder Scrolls games. The Elder Scrolls equivalent of wands are scrolls. Anyone in the game can use them, regardless of class, because scrolls are magicka directly infused onto parchment and ink. You simply unroll the scroll, scream the words on the page, and the magic takes care of itself. Wands would be a lot more welcomed if spells like "fly" and "darkvision" could be used by non-magic classes.
As for the wand shops, a return system should be implemented. If the wand is bought, and the player does not move out of the shop, he could use a "return" command and get his money back. This command is disabled if he uses a charge on the wand, leaves the shop, or buys another wand. This would make wand shopping less like pick-n-pray and more like trying on different clothes at the local mall. Le fighters can how ring up their wizard friends and go wand shopping.

[Yemin]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/ma ... Basics.htm
Nothing that I can see there says wands have to be spell trigger items and that they can't be command word activated so everyone can use them.

Granted this kind of makes use magic device useless in game since I don't believe none of that skill's other uses are coded for in game. Though correct if i'm wrong. I don't play rogues.

[Hadwyn]

Personally, I would like the general ability to use wands since my character is a Fighter. Finding the right wands would definitely make things a bit easier and 'balance' the game (class v. class) a bit. Especially if I can find someone to help recharge the wand or to have those services provided by an NPC. It would also would have been nice to have a use for those rewards generously given by NPCs for quest completion rather than selling them off to NPCs or giving them away. Admittedly, I am not sure how much coding would be required for such. Just my two cents.

[Althasizor]

Activation

Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

As things stand now, activating wands is the only thing Use Magic Device allows a rogue to do. They cannot use it to recite off a scroll, as another bit of code forbids you from reciting spells that aren't in your spell list. As for 'balance', fighters win the game. That's pretty much the end all, so if the trade-off is preventing everyone from having a wizards' utility, that sounds a bit fair to me.

[Yemin]

Activation

Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

As things stand now, activating wands is the only thing Use Magic Device allows a rogue to do. They cannot use it to recite off a scroll, as another bit of code forbids you from reciting spells that aren't in your spell list. As for 'balance', fighters win the game. That's pretty much the end all, so if the trade-off is preventing everyone from having a wizards' utility, that sounds a bit fair to me.

Well, never seen a wand with a spell higher than level 3. And spells such as locate object, wouldn't really work with them anyway. If there are wands out there with higher levels than that... then thats kind of recklessly game breaking. I don't believe it would do anything for balance as brewed potions are already widely available for the most part. Purpose of this initiative would be to give everyone the chance not to lose out on what is sometimes 1/3 of their quest reward because as is, like Hadwyn said, fighters treat wands like candy. Because of their actual ability in game their value is very much understated and they become little more than the sticks they turn into when empty.

I also think though that there is a general feeling that wizards and clerics will get too powerful if wands and staves become rechargeable or hold too many charges. I believe this is only the case because other classes lack some of their utility to balance. Though I will say that this game is based on 3x.... which is notoriously unbalanced in the first place with wizards and clerics being firmly at the top.., well, something like 1-wizard, 2-cleric/druid but I forget.

My point is that despite imbalance the game is still fun enough that tons of people enjoy it.

Some suggestions though to make things more paletable: wands hold 50 charges are not rechargeable. Staves hold anywhere from 5 to 15 charges, are rechargeable. more physically inclined oppponents can attempt sundering both in combat, making it a dangerous proposition to flaunt them too much, though this is only fair if their fairly easy to replace later via wand making. Scrolls have a level limit of 4-5, forcing the need for using staves more.
All this being somewhat a dream since this would all take much more time than a shopkeeper with identify and a print out which on its own seems to be a non issue for the majority enough to be ignored.

honestly, upon more thought since starting this thread, I believe the state of wands, potions, scrolls and staves is the result of over home ruling the system. Scribing, brewing and wand making have been pushed to high levels as a capstone ability, forcing the value of those skills to rise through ignoring the xp and for the most part the gp cost of making them. Problem now arises that its no longer a sacrifice to scribe 9th level spells. This automatically makes other items like wands which are supposed to be cheaper per use, and staves which are the closest to a capstone kind of worthless. Though I'm happy to see some people using staves more now than I did a year ago, its a shame their pushed to a niche item when realistically (:P) yes realistically in the fantasy setting of FR staves are some of a wizard's most prized possessions.

[Yemin]

Firstly, Yay for recharge but then I saw this:

recharge
Item Price
a white wand with a diamond tip 200 platinum, 2 gold, 5 copper
an aquamarine-studded dark green wand 200 platinum, 2 gold, 5 copper
a wand with an emerald tip 200 platinum, 4 silver, 5 copper
an ivory-white wand with a diamond-shaped tip 200 platinum, 2 gold, 4 silver, 5 copper
an onyx-encrusted blue wand 200 platinum, 2 gold, 5 copper
a darkened wand with a sapphire tip 200 platinum, 2 gold, 1 electrum, 3 silver, 5 copper
a darkened wand with a sapphire tip 200 platinum, 2 gold, 4 silver, 5 copper
a wand with a mahogany grip 400 platinum, 2 gold, 5 copper

This isn't the first time I've recharged a wand, but this is the first tiem I'm seeing the price on rmi wands. Why're these wands costing some 10x times the amount of store bought?