Economy (...from "Buying a Stall")

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:05 pm

This might warant a new thread if its not a one sentence answer, but how does the FK economy and pricing... work?
The conversation in this thread's made me curious.

In 3.5 there are guidelines for example, how rich a lair should be in coin for the level of creatures found inside as well as pay wages for unskilled laborers i.e. stable hands and for services like stabling your mount. I'll keep away from the cost of magic services as magic always complicates the issue but yeah. In FK is 3 copper still considered the average earning power, per day of an unskilled laborer and if so, what was the thinking of average earning power of the common adventurer versus common services?

Currently, I can see people running out of money if they never go hunting which is unthinkable on the table as one say... Challenge rating 8 creature with a lair has enough loot to live comfortably if not richly for a decade or more.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:24 am

It is one of those things which is apples and oranges in a lot of ways. There are efficiencies in a table-top game which allow it to run smoothly for about the duration of a couple of two liter bottles of Mountain Dew; similarly there are things here which must demand that players do things or this 24/7 world would become dull.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:48 am

It would be interesting to see how much coin every NPC in waterdeep put together has vs dungeon lairs like howling peek.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:17 am

Comparing one of the wealthiest cities on the Sword Coast (or Faerun itself) to a stinking pile of starving goblins may not be the most profitable comparison, whether on the web or the table top.

Beskytter · Post by **Beskytter** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:18 am

Honestly, the economy in FK seems haphazardly set and not in a critique sort of way do I say this. It seems like the coded foundation for the value of coins is fairly well designed, but that individual builders put price tags on their various merchants with their own ideas about how things should cost.

Then you have fluff items, like suits from the Gentlemen's Club or wizards robes from the tower in the Keep, that are rather costly but understandably so because they're tailor made (ICly).

This is all observation, so I'm curious to know if there's an overarching code to govern minimum and maximum values for cost.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:40 pm

Harroghty wrote:Comparing one of the wealthiest cities on the Sword Coast (or Faerun itself) to a stinking pile of starving goblins may not be the most profitable comparison, whether on the web or the table top.

And yet.., If, theoretically I went through waterdeep and butchered most of the street faring NPCs and did the same in howling peak, I'd be interested to see how much of a difference in wealth there would be.

This is all written with a bemused smile though, as you said... apples and oranges. I'm fairly sure there are creature dens far more wealthy than Waterdeep in game so this is mostly down to growing curiosity.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:46 pm

Yes, there is a system which assigns worth to objects uniformly.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:55 pm

Is that system open for viewing or easily explained?

I'd enjoy understanding how it prices things sold to merchants.

Ungtar · Post by **Ungtar** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:33 pm

Even uniformly isn't very realistic. How many different nations constitute the continent of Faerun? How many nations are there on Toril? With different economies, resources, and currencies?

This is one of those areas where I just suspend disbelief.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:44 pm

Well by uniform I assumed he meant there is code used for all items but not all items have to use it as per builder preference / choice. Since there are plenty of places in game with the same object sold at dif rates

Ungtar · Post by **Ungtar** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:55 pm

Yemin wrote:Well by uniform I assumed he meant there is code used for all items but not all items have to use it as per builder preference / choice. Since there are plenty of places in game with the same object sold at dif rates

Yes, and yes.

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.org/builde ... lshops.php

The code is semi-exposed in the builder help section.

<snippet>

150 50 - This is the profit-buy and profit-sell. This is a markup for characters buying the item from the shop-keeper, in percentage points. The markup is taken from the actual value of the item. 100 is nominal price; 150 is 50% markup, and so on. The 'profit-sell' number is a markdown for players selling the item, in percentage points. 100 is nominal price; 75 is a 25% markdown, and so on. The buying markup should be at least 120, and the selling markdown should be at most 80. Common shops in Forgotten Kingdoms are set to 150 buy and 50 sell.

</snippet>

Each object has a value setting and the shop controls the markup and markdown. While there is a general rule of thumb, clearly over the years there has been some general deviation through different builders (and architects).

Some of that system is base Smaug and some has been modified, it looks like. Diku used a very similar structure, but this is the first time I've seen it work in as complex of a setting as Forgotten Realms.

If I were in charge (I'm not), I'd do away with the base shop system except for basic items. Everything else would be player-driven with the ability to exchange coin for experience, to support a population of players who like to craft/build/trade but don't want to be bothered going out to kill things.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:36 pm

Without having to go out and kill things?.... *shudder*
Kill the infidels!

I don't think I have enough experience with the crafting system here to really say how well that would go with anything like accuracy. But from a year and a bit's worth of observation that would result in a very high demand on crafters vs low production power if they were set as active skills like Brewing and scribing as to passive like armor and weapons crafting perhaps?

Woror · Post by **Woror** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:06 pm

Both the D&D economy & FK economy, makes sense to an extent, because the random treasure obtained by killing a single goblin is worth several decades of unskilled labor.

Ungtar · Post by **Ungtar** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 pm

Woror wrote:Both the D&D economy & FK economy, makes sense to an extent, because the random treasure obtained by killing a single goblin is worth several decades of unskilled labor.

Question though ... goblins don't mint coins.

So where do they get them?

There's an entire backstory there that's at least as interesting as this discussion.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:41 pm

Robbing rich.. unprotected merchants on the road. Its why most of my characters can justify looting

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:03 pm

As a note. I think the price of some items while reasonable from perhaps an IC provider's point of view, isn't so from an actuall economical point of view as they're too high to actually be bought or thought off as worth while. Some wands, Some potions. Cloaks of full resistance, that sort of thing.

I've seen the afformentioned minor cloaks go for nearly 1000 platinum in shops.

Ungtar · Post by **Ungtar** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:26 pm

Heh. Try buying anything off of Mers. The boy exceeded the buffer value of the banking system a long time ago.

Yemin · Post by **Yemin** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:16 pm

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Ungtar · Post by **Ungtar** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:25 pm

* offer not valid in California.
** The above text does not constitute investment advice. As individual situations may vary, consult an authorized investment counselor for advice pertaining to your specific circumstances.

Maetha · Post by **Maetha** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:55 pm

***No relation to Acquisitions Incorporated, there is no need to sue us.

Economy (...from "Buying a Stall")

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