Gods of destruction

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:50 am

How are the relations between Talos(head) and the other gods of destruction?(Malar, Umberlee, Auril, and maybe Talona) Are they cordial(as cordial as chaos can be) or do they compete for dominance/one upmanship? If Bane rarely got anywhere with his henchmen and followers infighting for better standings, even to the deterrance of Banes final wishes, how would the followers of these gods react to each other? Not only would there be the church infighting but now you have a few other faiths to deal with. Would the followers of these religions collaborate and be respectfull of each others ways(just on the surface of course) or would the comtempt for other beliefs keep them apart? Again this could be said for all other faiths, even the good ones but since these gods have pact??? Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul had a simular bond, did they and there followers worked in unison??

Rhelian · Post by **Rhelian** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:43 am

Talos is the leader of the Deities of Fury. He likes Umberlee and Auril, but Talos and Malar don't like each other. Malar wants to kill Talos, and Talos works with Malar because he has to. Talona is grouped in with other deities, Lov and Besh I think off the top of my head.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:54 am

Interesting question. I have a little book that has a little knowledge. I am going to share that with you. The book is called the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. Amazing book! And let the quoting begins :

Talos was formed from the first battle between Selune and Shar. He is now the leader of the Gods of Fury, although he has rivalries with the other three, and Malar would kill him if he could.
page 252 about the history and relationships of Talos.

Umberlee is one of the Gods of Fury. She serves Talos, along with Auril and Malar. Talos has been encroaching upon her portfolio, and since she lacks the strength to fight him, Umberlee has been trying to distract him with romantic intrigues.
page 254 on the history and relationships of Umberlee.

One of the Gods of Fury along with Talos(his superior), Auril, and Umberlee.
page 245 on the history and relationships of Malar.

What does all of this mean? Talos is the stronges and none of the others can do anything about it. Here is another interesting fact, the book calls Talos a Greater God while Unberlee is only an intermediate goddess and Malar a lesser god. So I think Talos gives the orders and the other three will follow his lead. So likewise their followers are going to follow suit and mostlikely defer to the strongest among the faithful of Talos.

Mikhail · Post by **Mikhail** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:05 pm

In theory, perhaps, they would all defer as you say. In reality this likely would happen for just about as long as it served the ends of the people and their respective gods.

Mikhail

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:23 pm

Alright, here is how I see it. If Talos has something he wants done by Malar, the only chance Malar has of not doing it is to stay away. Talos may search for a little while but this most likely has something to do with something being destroyed. Now if Malar is slaughtering some poor soul and Talos walks in and says he wants a place attacked Malar can't really say no now can he? Talos is bigger, Talos is stronger. If Malar could kill him he would but he can't. Now the followers I completely agree with what you said. Followers of Malar arn't going to follow orders from anyone but their own leaders. Unless Talos forces Malar to force them. If Malar tells his followers do what this guy says they are going to do it.

Mikhail · Post by **Mikhail** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:26 pm

...which brings us back to followers will defer for just about as long as it suits their particular god's need.

Evil gods... Evils (and evil gods in particular) are extremely Machiavellian: the ends always justify the means. If it suits Malar's plans/goals/whatever to pretend alliance with Talos, he will - regardless of "having to because Talos is more powerful". How one cooperates is just as meaningful. Doing so begrudingly and doing so willingly (even avidly) are completely different. Do they wish to cooperate? Not darn likely. Do they do so because they know it is wise and therefore suits their ends? Yeah.

Mikhail

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:10 am

Kinda thought so, but just wanted to make clear sure they did not act like demi human pantheons.

As far as this subject goes, could someone write up a sticky that would denote all the differrant alliances that there are with the gods? Ie the Triad: Tyr/Helm/Torm; the Gods of Fury; or the one stated by Rhelien, besheba/Lovitar/Talona. And not the enemies or allies( that can be searched on the web) but the ones they actually have pact with. With who leads, if they have grudges with one another.

It would make an excellent guide to us that don't know any better with who to socialize and who not to.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:38 am

The Triad is made up of Tyr, Torm and Ilmater.

The Gods of Fury include Talos, Umberlee, Auril and Malar

The Seldarine is the elven pantheon. The only one we have in the game is Corellon Larethian.

Isaldur · Post by **Isaldur** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:01 am

Might I also add in the Oghma, Deneir, Gond, Milil groupings. Deneir and Milil are treated more like servants by Oghma and his relationships with the flighty Milil are strained. He appreciates Gond but doesn't exactly like how Gond wishes to push technology further and further.

All that however does not mean faiths of Milil/Deneir get along with Gond. Denier and Milil represent aspects of Oghma's faith that go along with learning, poetry, music, and fine intellectual arts. Gond is appreciated for his inventions and enthusiasm.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:16 am

Just wanted to add one thing. Evil characters, whatever the faith are mainly driven by one thing, self preservation. In my experience, evil characters will bow down to the bigger, stronger character (at least for a time) to ensure thier survival. Course they might try to change this later on. But at the point of encounter, symbols mean nothing to the low-level priest of the superior god staring at the well-armored, high-leveled character of the 'lesser' god. Just thought I should refresh that little point....

N.R.

Rorix · Post by **Rorix** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 4:22 pm

I would have to disagree with that point Nysan. I got kicked around a LOT when I was a low level priest. In fact, I do believe I was killed over such things at *least* two times. Smarting off to followers of the Dark Sun when they spoke of him being the only deity ... any passing elves would get at the very least a scowl. I think you get the point.

Also, I know another Cleric of Cyric (<------- snip out too much IC information --->) whom took this same type of aproach as I did. Now your point may just apply to characters not of the chruch, since we have a closer realtionship with the deity, but I still feel that does not apply to all evils. lateaz

the Eye of the Storm
P.S. No spell check? Oh man .. I'm owned to the max ..

(Please try and keep the IC information in these threads down please. Try and speak in general terms without referring too much to what has happened to your characters. The only place for an IC story is the journal. -- Sharni)

Lathlain · Post by **Lathlain** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:17 pm

But Cyric *is* the only true deity!
I have been known to humble myself in order to stay alive, but as a follower of Cyric I have never conceded that another's faith was worthy, or even anything more than a figment of their imagination. It is all down to your chosen deity, really, and how you choose to abide by the church's ideals to best represent them.
Self preservation is one thing, but the challenging of faith is another thing entirely.

Malar · Post by **Malar** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:21 am

Some hunts take a long time to complete. And what is time to a god? I will kill that fool Talos, for I am better than he!

Something for a evil characters to keep in mind: Power is everything!

You may be weak now, but one day everyone will pay for what they are doing to you now. Someone bullies you into helping them? You do it, not eagerly, not quickly, and not willingly. But you do it, in a way that works to your advantage. In a way that builds you up and diminishes them. You do it to survive(even if its but a while longer), but also to grow stronger. Remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

Even the mightiest falter, just ask Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal.

Nicolya · Post by **Nicolya** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:48 pm

I have one question if I may add to this. I am a follower of Sune, and under help dieties it lists Tempus as her only foe, but in Faith and Avatars Talos and Umberlee I belive are foes of her as well as Talona (don't have the books infront of me so I can't double check). Should I focus only what is listed in help dieties or what is in books such as Faiths and Avatars and Powers and Pantheons?

Gods of destruction

Gods of destruction

Not bowing down because I'm better than you

Gods Foes/Allies