Orcs and Waterdeep

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:24 am

If a Orc obeyed the laws and did not cause trouble while they were in the city could they ICly enter Waterdeep? Or is it just ICly and codewise not acceptable?

Pakur · Post by **Pakur** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:37 am

ICly it's a terrible decision, most likely the guards would slay an orc on site(IC wise anyway).

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:05 am

*nod* Thanks for clearing the issue up

Ellian · Post by **Ellian** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:45 pm

I am curious about which major cities Orcs can safely enter. There are some cities that a player could decide are safe or not safe using common sense - Berdusk would be a bad idea because it is full of Harpers, Zhentil Keep would be alright, however - but with other cities it is harder to tell.

Places like Westgate and Zazesspur, which already have well established shady populations - would Orcs be allowed into these sorts of places?

-El-

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:56 am

Where should an orc go? Without going too far IC, I'll toss out advise. First, use your head. Some place are a simple 'duh' answer about if an orc should be there, like Silverymoon. But if you are unsure and there is no one around to give advise, try going in. The worse that can happen is death or getting kicked out, right?

N.R.

Ellian · Post by **Ellian** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:55 am

My only concern is that some areas might not be coded to keep the orc race out. I wouldn't want to enter a city that wasn't coded to exclude orcs but realistically would. It sounds like something that would fall under the "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" rule.

-El-

Exer · Post by **Exer** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:12 am

I'd say there are only a very few cities Orc can and should go in. Can you imagine the panic that would occur if an orc showed up in one of those small villages? Beware of the pitch forks!

Micheal · Post by **Micheal** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:12 pm

I don't understand why orcs can even go to Zhentil Keep. I mean, didn't orcs blow up the bridges and trap escape during the Chrinishad? It seems to me that a place like Zhentil Keep would be more Xenophopic than even Berdusk.

It seems to me that Orcs, gnolls, and goblins (sorry if I left your race out) should be shunned from any city other than Westgate (that is currently in the game)

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:12 am

I disagree strongly. This is a game. If they can only go into one city how on earth are they going to find RP? I think it is completely logical game wise to allow those evil races into Zhentil Keep.

Just my opinion
Danica

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:39 am

And just like Exer said, imagine the panic it would cause.

I would think many orcs would delight in the mayham that would ensue simply from their being there. Just like Mele said, it's for the RP. It would make sense that people would be very hostile towards them, but I don't think you make an orc character for the long-lasting friendships.

So while the larger, more lawful cities(Waterdeep, Silverymoon) would have the appropriate means to keep orcs out, other cities might not. And in my opinion, the people of Zhentil Keep wouldn't care(Or at the least wouldn't kill them on sight) if an Orc came into the city. After all, it houses a temple of Cyric... There are worst things in the city besides an orc.

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:02 pm

Mele said:

If they can only go into one city how on earth are they going to find RP? I think it is completely logical game wise to allow those evil races into Zhentil Keep.

I disagree with this statement. The (note that I say this, nor is it meant to be demeaning to any who go into cities) Well-Roleplayed Rangers and Druids rarely, if ever, enter into any city. I think there is plenty of RP outside of cities, as well, lots of Orc RP can occur RIGHT OUTSIDE of cities. Imagine the Guards looking over the fence to see Orcs meandering outside of town?

Natasha

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:56 pm

Perhaps I am too vague.

RP is not something that is strict to only cities. However, it is a very well known fact that people congregate in the cities. Yes, many rangers and druids who rp never enter a city, I have a druidess who does not. However, the begining staple of her roleplay years ago, to even begin to meet people, was IN the city. Evil and orcish roleplay is often hard enough to find. Zhentil Keep is a wonderful stepping stone for both to begin roleplay beyond the cities, as that is generally the easiest place to find people. This is why my opinion is that banning orcs from Zhentil Keep is something that should not happen for the game part of FK.

:)
Danica

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:18 pm

Imagine the Guards looking over the fence to see Orcs meandering outside of town?

I wouldn't recommend RPing right outside of a lawful city as the guards ICly would probably shoot arrows and attack the orc if it was right outside of the gates. and other organizations could go and hunt the orc down, whatnot

Although if it were wilderness considering each is about 30 miles, I could see being a square away from a lawful city gate.

Ooma · Post by **Ooma** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:22 pm

Mystra wrote:Orcs can reasonably go to any city that is considered to be "evil". Off hand that would be Zhentil Keep and Westgate.

Small villages would be as Exer says, watch out for pitch forks.

Orcs are a tough roleplay, mostly because of the inability to go to many areas for supplies etc.

Sharni

While I understand and abide by this ruling. There is an issue that has arisen that I am not sure if the imms are aware of. If they are then I respectfully apologize. Those orcs who wish to be witch doctors or Shaman... are limited ICly when it comes to spells and spell feats available to them. While many evils can wander into Waterdeep unnoticed train to their hearts content, an orc can not. Code wise or ICLy it is not possible at all. I have noticed that the spell feats and most of the spells are at trainersin cities and towns that, ICLy are off limits to orcs. And while I DO respect the ruling that orcs are more limited. I'm nt certain if the imms realize how few spells and feats are ICLY available to orcs.

According to the ruling quote here, by Mystra, orcs are ICLY only allowed to enter the Keep and Westgate. This rules out many trainers for orcs... and while I have no problem developing and building more areas and resources for orcs, spell and spell feat trainers are not something anyone has control over but the imms. Perhaps this may change a bit if/when the teaching system is put in place but, for now... I would like it if an imm could please give us a ruling on this. Are these two listed cities the only ones which orcs are permitted ICLY to enter to train spells and spell feats? I prefer not to anger any of the imm staff if I go to train in a city they feel would be off limits to orcs... I have pretty much exhausted all possibilities in the two listed here and have a very limited number f spells and spell feats.

If it is the intention that orcs are to be limited to having a massively reduced list of spells and feats then I will gladly RP and not make a fuss about it. I know some other races RP using hoods and so forth to be allowed to train at trainers who would normally not train people from particular race but, I am not even sure how the imms feel about this? If it is alright for my orc to get a big hood and go train from the priest of Goodie-two-shoes in Xapaloozaville even if ICLy the priest would not train an orc then please let me know? XD I'm not trying to be disrespectful or whiney just not certain if anyone knows how limited a spell caster is when they are not permitted anywhere but The Keep and Westgate and the Orc camp.

Normally I do not ask to be spoonfed rulings but...in this case... I feel it would be helpful.

Thanks for your time
Ooma

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:13 pm

I am against orcs in goodly cities like Waterdeep outside of special rp. The reason being that an orc would be attacked instantly on entry unless it was a stealthy and subtle orc. Secondly, goodly and neuter cities like Waterdeep have trainers that icly would not train orcs defeating the purpose of an orc training there at all. The best solution is more player built areas that could cater to orcish needs or the introduction of more trainers in these locals. I would rather see the former. There are vast areas to be built at leisure that could benifit races of all sorts they just need players to build them at their leisure. I see no need to rush just to wait patiently and see what happens.

Ooma · Post by **Ooma** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:45 am

I agree as far as waterdeep is concerned. I should have been more specific...
there are VERY IC reasons ( As well as code ) to prevent Orcs from entering the deep. I am, however, speaking of some of the other cities in the game Zazz, Darromar, Tantras, Daggerford. etc...

I DO...agree with the fact that an orc in goodly cities would cause great amount of havoc, which is why my orc has not trained 85% of her spells and has only one spell feat

I am a bit frustrated at trying not to do things in an un IC manner. (i.e. getting a hood and saying well they could not see me I can train to my hearts content.)

If it is that orcs can not enter any cities but the two Mystra mentions. Might it be possible *pretty please* to have more spells and spell feats trainable In those places that are open to special races? It is very crippling to evil spell casters with special races, who are IC about their training.

I am sorry if I made it sound as if I wanted the newbie friendly areas and good cities to be opened up

I just wanted to ask about training.. and see if there is no way to get to the trainers, ifwould it be possible to check and get some additional spells and feats added to the places that special races can play? ( I.e. the keep and Westgate or other cities the imms deem appropriate.)

Thank you Oghma for pointing out that Orcs have no place in places like the Deep... and indeed,I do agree

I also an very happy to construct areas but as a builder I am not the one responsible for deciding where spells and spell feats go in an area, so that is a bit out of my hands.( or else I would have loaded the orc camp up LOoong ago

ROFLMAO) While I am normally not one to be antsy about training in a hurry, I am an HP and I have been training for months... trying to get the coin and training I would need to appropriately represent the HP in the manner that has come to be expected on FK. I was made HP at a low level... and have tried for quite some time to train spells and spell feats... so it is not as if this is a knee jerk reaction. ( in the event that it sounded as if it were )

In truth... I am not sure if the imms actually realize the lack of balance in the spells avaiable to evil special races. ( this was the main purpose for my post)

Just sharing the plight!!! lol

Ooma

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:40 am

When I look at an hp, I do not look at power or spell count. I look at rp and how they decide to rp. To be a faith manager you do not need to have a maxium list of spells or a incredibly armoured or powerful character. That is my opinion on the matter. If you die because someone has better spells than you or feel intimidated by followers that have greater skills than you it might just be that those pc's are not rping appropriately with a faith leader. That may and most likely is not the case here. I just want to put out what I meant clearly. Just because you lack certain spells or prayers does not mean you lack the authority of an fm, it is all in rp. Just because you feel powerless ooc does not mean you are icly.

I apologise for shifint the thread from its original discussion. To reiterate, Pc's that create orcs sacrifice certain elements to gain those characters. It affects everyone that has one and can be resolved by either submitting quests for orcs or as was loosely suggested making spells and prayers available through new trainers or new areas designed. As there has been of late an orcish renissance of sorts I am sure that some would be willing to jump at the chance to design areas to be built by dedicated builders when time allows.