Kismet and characters

[Isolrem]

considering people who have less time to play, to invest time in RP or game time in general, kismet is more valuable.
I, for example.
But most importantly, no one has given a credible reason about why total kismet is unsatisfactory for the purpose of this... learning.

[Sean]

I normally don't throw in my opinon into matters, but I feel as if this topic warrents such an occasion.

Why is total kismet unsatisfactory for the purposes of race purchasing? Lets put togeather an example: Say I save up (Random number) 2000 Kismet for a planetouched character. Now, if the system says once you pay to 'unlock' a race, you never have to spent kismet to make the race again. Over the course of the next month, I could make a dozen characters, all of a race that are supposed to be so rare, it isn't uncommon for people to have lived their entire lives (even the long lived races) without seeing one. That would interfear with proper balance (not in gameplay, but in the world's demographs).

By having it so if we spend Kismet, this keeps such creatures rare, like they should be. And remember, we won't spend Kismet on everything... Like, elves and such will probably just check to see if you have enough, so will some hometowns, but 'rare' races (rare being the keyword here) will cost, so we aren't swarmed with 50 planetouched as soon as the new char system is in.

Also, just for the record, Mystra already rulled on this...
http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... ght=kismet

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:23 am

Right now it acknowledges you have [the minimum Kismet to create a race]. After I am done, it will DEDUCT for many of the options. That way rare races stay rare.

Sharni

So unless anyone has a really, REALLY, good reason why it shouldn't be that way (which, if this is the case, I'm glad to hear my opinions countered!), I doubt it will change... No reason for not discussing it though.

[Gruumsh]

But most importantly, no one has given a credible reason about why total kismet is unsatisfactory for the purpose of this... learning

There is a good and simple reason in addition to rarity. It is only logical that if something is more diffacult to play well, then one should have the time available to play that something. Spending kismet encourages players to limit their more diffacult characters to a number and quality they should be able to manage well.

g1i

[Isolrem]

Good point Sean, but that, in effect, makes accumulated Kismet worthless.

So instead, we can have two diferent kismet values, one for RP awards and one for race purchasing (that way awarded kismet might also go to race purchasing, so awards has some point) this way they won't interfere with one another.

[Gwain]

there is more to kismet than race purchasing as it says in the helpfile found in the game. and in the official post detailing kismet found on the boards.

The kismet/account command shows you how much kismet you have in your account.

Kismet is a new measuring system, which can be compared to a point to glory.
Kismet is a measure of how trustworthy/good the player is (not the character).
Kismet is measured on the player using the accounts system, and not the
individual characters. A player who causes a lot of OOC problems will have Kismet
deducted for causing problems and will likely always have a low kismet or
negative kismet until they are banned. A player who never causes problems,
roleplays well, will earn alot of kismet, and never lose it to strikes and
the like.

Kismet can be earned by:

1 point for every hour played
Rewards given by immortals
Rewards given by other players

Kismet can be spent on:

Exotic characters and location in character creation. This helps prevent
inexperienced players from making races or starting in a town that we say
is for experienced players only. The new character creation system will
be actively worked on towards being implemented after the accounts system
is in place. The accounts system is needed for the new character
generation system to work.
For instance if you have 0 kismet, then you will only be able to make a
basic race character starting only in Waterdeep. Everything else will cost.
This helps the newbie council tremendously by making people make
characters in Waterdeep when they first start on FK. It is expected
that other not so hard locations will cost around 10 kismet to start
in, thereby presuming the player has at least 10 hours of play in the
game and has therefore learned the basics of the game. It will keep
the utter newbies confined to Waterdeep, where it is easiest to help them.

Some quests in the game will require players to have a minimum kismet,
BUT will not require expenditure. This allows us to restrict quests with
exotic rewards to our well behaved players. Some special areas will
require a decent kismet to get into.

Kismet can be lost to:

Strikes. Strikes are recorded on the account and not the character now.
A strike will result in the loss of kismet, thereby restricting problem
players from enjoying the benefits of kismet. Existing strikes will be
transferred on a case by case basis.

Punish: The punish command will take away kismet and experience
(opposite of reward but only deities can do it). This will be used for
minor infractions and really poor roleplay (like a priest of Selune
walking around the temple of Selune shoving all the mobs around).

In the long term kismet will help you gain new areas and new quest.

[Sean]

Good point Sean, but that, in effect, makes accumulated Kismet worthless.

Accumulated Kismet isn't worthless... If you read the topic link I provided

It will basically depend. Some things like ability to make an evil char or start in a certain hometown where we only want experienced players, we will just be checking to see if you have the kismet, but things like play a fire genasi, that will cost the kismet.

Meaning, that by accumulating Kismet, you open options that should be reserved to people who understand what is going on. It is very difficult to help a newbie who creates a dwarf in Mithril Hall, simply because of the sheer impossibility for most characters to get there, coupled with the fact that it is a VERY hostile area. By "checking" (meaning, looking at accumulated Kismet) the account, they can make sure that the player is at least experienced in the way the mud works.

Also, it was rumored at one point or another, Accumulated Kismet, like glory, might be a requirment to start some quests =D. So even if you've rewarded yourself down to 3 kismet, you can still trigger a quest that requires 1000, assuming you have earned that much overall.

So instead, we can have two diferent kismet values, one for RP awards and one for race purchasing (that way awarded kismet might also go to race purchasing, so awards has some point) this way they won't interfere with one another.

Uhh... I don't think I quite understood your suggestion. Some clarity please?

Edit: Apoligizes if I covered some of your points Gwain... I kinda wrote this between Isolrem's post and yours.

[Beshaba]

Accumulated Kismet would not be useless, for both the quest reason and for another very important reason. Before we offer any player an opportunity for a special RP of any sort, we are going to take a look at all of the kismet values. How much have the accumulated, how much have they spent, how much they have lost through being punishement.

I understand that some people might not see the reason for making things rare or difficult to get, but some of those people also have never seen some of the problems we have had to deal with.

[Isolrem]

okay I understand better now. What I was trying to say, Sean, if it still has any relevance, is that if rewards simply adds a lesser amount (then spent by the one giving the reward) to the other player it's a bit worthless, better to seperate the kismet for awards and for races, so awards will give a larger boost to race making, but people won't be awarding each other back and forth (e.g. award kismets are collected through certain qsts and by playing time, spending 25 award kismets will add 25 race kismets directly to the other player. The race kismet can only be acquired that way)

but now it doesn't seem as good an idea as a confusing one

[Urival]

Alrighty guys, i just came back online and just read about this kismet thing. From what i can tell it take 200-600 kismet to create a "Special class" (based on the lost-kismet-2-crash thread). So gaining 1 kismet an hour you sould be able to create a new charicter at about the same rate that you find the rp of your charicter, i mean the true rp of him or her. I honestly thing you really havnt developed a charicter until a solid 600 hours.
just my thought on that one
ryan
(ps my charicter has 350 and i still feel lost roleplaying him sometimes)

[Kirkus]

I have to disagree with you there Urival. A player can find the rp of a character in no time at all. Yes some it will take time but for others it won't. The thing you have to remember is that rp should never be static. It should always have the chance to change into something new. My three or four other characters that I have put some time into, even if you were to combine all of the time spent on the four probabily wouldn't be 600 hours. But for each one I have found the rp path that character wants to take for now. But that is getting away from my point. Rp should be fluid, changeable. Not changeable all willie nillie but if an event warents, you should let the rp of the character change to reflect. Take Kirkus for example. Those who know him know that he has had roughly 3 phases. He's like a butterfly..... a butterfly of DESTRUCTION of course. Phase 1 Kirkus was a good little elf boy. Due to certain events Kirkus metamorphased (I know I butchered that word) into plain ol' simple evil Kirkus. That was phase 2 in my opinion. Then phase three came along due to another situation and Kirkus became crazy insane evil Kirkus. The Kirkus we have all grown to love and hate.

[Hviti]

I'm pretty sure one point Isolrem is trying to make is one I thought I posted about somewhere....but can't find anymore . This being that, since rewards come in a format of kismet cost/reward given, and, in another post (which I once again can't find), all the reward costs/amounts are listed, and all the costs are greater than the amounts given, total kismet among the players decreases with each reward (there are reasons for this which I will try to talk about later). Ok, looking back at that last sentence, I'm not sure I'm making any sense, let alone following proper grammar...so...

Take Players X and Y, both with, say, 100 kismet, a requirement for x class/race. Both are great RPers, just new to the game (hence the (comparatively) low kismet). Both are planning to make a new class/race x, but the day before...

Player X sees player Y doing something cool RPwise and rewards him/her.

Kismet goes from:

X Y
100 100

to something like (since kismet cost to reward doesn't equal amount rewarded)

X Y
80 110

Now, later, Y sees X doing something great and...

X Y
90 90

So both have the happy reward feeling...but both have lower kismet than when they started, and now have to play ten more hours or get rewarded again to get back to that 100 mark for x class/race.

Now, there are some other points to take into consideration here:

1. If kismet could be switched with no cost, then ppl. could load new accounts of friends OOCly. (thought the 1 reward/day might help stop/slow that)

2. The problem above does NOT apply if someone with unlimited kismet (imms?) steps in (though they would have to inject enough into the system to balance that lost by rewards) (but there still is the issue of ppl in different time zones in that case)

3. That nifty config option in the other general discussion thread might help a bit with this by stopping the number of people who would take the smaller amounts of kismet for a larger amount lost by the (rewarder)

4. I guess NC doesn't have this problem (I thought someone posted in another thread (once again I am skilllevel inept at board search) that NC reward alot more or something)...but not everyone is/should be NC, and we ordinary folkses like to give others that warm fuzzy feeling.

I'm pretty sure that rewards ought to cost somehow, as, well, it wouldn't seem quite so special if they were just switching back and forth...maybe they could be more exp based or something like that? Just thought that this possible situation ought to be considered while this thread is up and active.

Thanks for reading.

Will edit if some of those other darn ideas come back to me...

[Gwain]

I'd just like to say that there is coding that allows you to reward more or less kismet. And, for the most part I will reward anyone I feel should be rewarded no matter the kismet cost to myself. It does not concern me that I lose kismet in the long run, because I will eventually regain it again. I do not feel jealous of others because I understand the level of care and quality that has been taken to create a system that is fair and allows dedicated players the chance to rp spectacular characters and events. It's to reward as you see fit be it to reward as much or as little as you want to. Don't be jealous of others, if you want to give it out then give it out. If you want to keep it, there is nothing stopping you from doing that as far as I know.

2. The problem above does NOT apply if someone with unlimited kismet (imms?) steps in (though they would have to inject enough into the system to balance that lost by rewards) (but there still is the issue of ppl in different time zones in that case)

No one as far as I know has unlimited kismet. I believe that the imms and admins administer it properly and fairly. Sometimes it is harder to play at certain times but it is still possible to find rp. Just be patient and do the best you can.

4. I guess NC doesn't have this problem (I thought someone posted in another thread (once again I am skilllevel inept at board search) that NC reward alot more or something)...but not everyone is/should be NC, and we ordinary folkses like to give others that warm fuzzy feeling.

The NC is here to help you and are trusted by the admins. They do their best and are exceptional judges of roleplay. Even if they can reward more often it does not mean they have to reward more, they will reward good rp they observe like anyone else if they so choose. I don't think there is any reason to be upset about the amount of kismet you can reward, I think it is a noble thing to reward at all and being able to reward at least once a day is nice in itself. I see many great rp's and look to reward them whenever capable.

With Kismet, all you have to do is be patient and rp or go about your regular rp. It fills up every hour by one point for game time and will do so as you play. Just enjoy the mud, do the best you can and have fun, it is a game not a competition

Thanks
"Patience is an old man that talks to rocks.

[Hviti]

Thanks Gwain, you got the nice side of things that I just couldn't grasp while writing the last post, while tied up with the whole "Agh! kismet is disappearing into black holes (or their computer equivalents) every time ya type reward!" type thing. . It's just kismet, not ppl's lifeblood.