Market Square Spam

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Argentia
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Post by Argentia » Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm

Ehh, Kirkus, that happened once, remember? ;)

MS IS a busy place. But can we not simply imagine this and RP accordingly? That way we don't disrupt lines of conversation and smotes. It's one thing to pass through once or twice, that is perfectly understandable. But sometimes people can't seem to make up their mind on where they want to go, and walk through the square upwards of five times in a row, and continue to do it. It's just frustrating, is all. :?
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Post by Zilvryn » Tue May 10, 2005 1:40 am

I think it's happened again, and the MS has been empty all day..
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Post by Kirkus » Wed May 11, 2005 3:51 am

I guess using my sarcastic voice dosn't help when Im typing.... I think we have a couple of options here. One, people rp'ing in the square pose that they are in a quiet corner of the square away from the major hubbub of the buzy market and just ignore the people walking through as much as possible. Im gonna use a Lincoln Nebraska analogy here so just bear with me.... its like sitting in the middle of the 11th and 0 street intersection ignoring all of the trafic and asking for the hopeless few circling the block trying to find a parking space to go a different way...... Your asking to suspend reality which is fine, but you are asking for others to inconvience themselves by going out of their way to NOT use a major throughfare so they don't get in your way. Gosh I am rambling now......sorry.
Two, we have the option of moving the rp to one of the many fine inns that have been specially built for rp, the Lucky Drunk, only two rooms away. Think of it! People poured their time into building an area for our mudd specifically for the purpose of housing rp and ale! Use it!
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Post by Argentia » Wed May 11, 2005 5:39 am

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having the Lucky Drunk as "RP central." Just the idea of nursing an ale after a long journey, regaling an audience with an over embellished tale of killing hoardes of kobolds with nothing but your loin cloth and a rusty fork you found... But anyway, I digress. :P

Really the only problem I see now are characters who rely a lot on MS for their RP. Specifically merchants and dwarves, people who haul carts into the square and hawk their wares. I have one such character, and it would be terribly innapropriate for him to sell his merchandise in the tavern. I'd feel badly ruining a main part of a character's RP, because no one hangs out in MS anymore. =(
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Post by Gwain » Wed May 11, 2005 12:46 pm

The market square is open to people if they want to throw up their feet and relax, sit and listen, look at the merchants and so on...it is just one of the dozens of squares in Waterdeep that are at any time full of npcs and such. I might be accused of rping in the same place too much but it does not bother me. If I have to be somewhere else or I feel the need, I will go there. I mean, there is nothing wrong with staying in one place too much or too little as long as you rp accordingly.
On another note, those that rp in the market square are expected to help new players with their rp as much as their own rp's allow. And in the case of spam I try to ignore it, but it does get bothersome when a pc walks in and out continously for fifteen to twenty minutes, I just try to live with it.

I often toyed with suggesting the idea that the market square be removed entirely from Waterdeep. That might force characters to rp elsewhere. but otherwise I try to do what my pc would do and make do in Waterdeep as best as possible.
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Post by Kirkus » Wed May 11, 2005 4:56 pm

Personally I think we should expand the Market. If you look at maps of Waterdeep, not fk waterdeep but FR waterdeep, the Market is huge it would be the size of a couple square blocks in a town, possibly even the size of my entire college campus if arranged differently. I think we could easily leave the square as rp central, altough I do believe inns and bars and restaurants are more apporperate, if we were to actually build the market arround it so there would be rooms of stalls for merchant pc's to set up shop, hawkers roaming arround peddling their wares, and various other market type activity.
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Post by Glim » Wed May 11, 2005 7:43 pm

Kirkus wrote:Personally I think we should expand the Market. If you look at maps of Waterdeep, not fk waterdeep but FR waterdeep, the Market is huge it would be the size of a couple square blocks in a town, possibly even the size of my entire college campus if arranged differently. I think we could easily leave the square as rp central, altough I do believe inns and bars and restaurants are more apporperate, if we were to actually build the market arround it so there would be rooms of stalls for merchant pc's to set up shop, hawkers roaming arround peddling their wares, and various other market type activity.
Im not exactly sure if there is any room in FK Waterdeep to make the square bigger, nor would I like to ask the imms to build it when im sure they have much better areas being made that everyone could enjoy, and being a little selfish, I would much rather see effort going into those new and exciting areas than into the market square just so more people can stand about in a larger area when they would just stick in the center room anyways.

I still stand with the idea that a guard could every once in a while tell the milling people to move along, or redirect them to the Lucky Drunk. Yes, might be a bit annoying, but it would make you move. Besides, there are better opportunities for RP in a bar/tavern setting anyways than a crowded street.

Rule of thumb for D&D always was, when your not sure what to do, go to a tavern. ;)
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Post by Argentia » Thu May 12, 2005 10:40 pm

I still stand with the idea that a guard could every once in a while tell the milling people to move along, or redirect them to the Lucky Drunk
I REALLY don't like this idea, to be honest. I admit I like the idea of RPing in the Lucky Drunk more and more, but I don't think we should stop people from RPing in MS. It is a market, so people will be selling their wares. And sometimes these people are PCs. Having the guard say something like this, to me, seems unIC and would cause more spam, which is what we set out to eliminate.

I really like the idea which was suggested earlier, having someone in the newb temple mentione the Lucky Drunk as the premier place for adventurers.

And hey, remember there are great RP oppertunities everywhere, whether it's an open field on the wilderness map, or a ruined castle infested with undead. :wink:
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Post by Jadom » Fri May 13, 2005 12:55 am

Gwain wrote:If I have to be somewhere else or I feel the need, I will go there. I mean, there is nothing wrong with staying in one place too much or too little as long as you rp accordingly.
On another note, those that rp in the market square are expected to help new players with their rp as much as their own rp's allow. And in the case of spam I try to ignore it, but it does get bothersome when a pc walks in and out continously for fifteen to twenty minutes, I just try to live with it.
But that is the whole point. There is nothing wrong with RP'ing in MS. But keep in mind, exactly as the description says, it's a huge, bustling place. Just because the code doesn't allow for hundreds of NPC's with various programs making them say things, doesn't mean you can pretend the square is empty. I wouldn't even call it spam for someone walking in and out repeatedly, in the actual setting you probably wouldn't even notice them. Just because code limitations don't allow it to happen that way, doesn't mean you should just ignore the fact that if you were in fact hanging around MS, especially during daylight hours, it would be a constant rush of jostling, babbling people. Complaining about people spamming the apparently perfectly empty, dead silent Market Square seems a bit off to me.
Having the guard say something like this, to me, seems unIC and would cause more spam, which is what we set out to eliminate.
Maybe a room prog then or something, so everyone once in a while an echo pops up having some street urchin or somebody earning a few coins by touting the fine food, drink and companionship of the Lucky Drunk. :wink:
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Market Square Spam

Post by Glim » Fri May 13, 2005 1:31 am

Argentia wrote:It is a market, so people will be selling their wares. And sometimes these people are PCs. Having the guard say something like this, to me, seems unIC and would cause more spam, which is what we set out to eliminate.
Of course the guard wouldnt mind people trading, but how many PCs in the square are actually doing business? Most are standing there talking, yes, some are trading, but MOST arent, and I dont think a guard would like that, it is a bustling place and a crowd of people merely standing there talking would stop the flow of traffic. Thus, a reminder to move along would be fine. I have stood and talked plenty, but in really looking at it, who would stand around and hold a conversation in an area they would more than likely have to shout to be heard in?
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Post by Isolrem » Fri May 13, 2005 1:35 am

The problem is, echoes spaced too far apart will have little effect, too often and it becomes spam.
How about part of room desc or a sign that says "No stalling at the Market Square except for those with business"
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Post by Glim » Fri May 13, 2005 1:47 am

Isolrem wrote:The problem is, echoes spaced too far apart will have little effect, too often and it becomes spam.
How about part of room desc or a sign that says "No stalling at the Market Square except for those with business"
In my opinion, a message in the description, people would probably read right over that, and besides, if you listen to the guard and actually go to the Lucky Drunk, then it wouldnt really be spam since you wouldnt have to see it anymore. I dont mean it has to be annoying, but just every once in a while so those who are talking can be reminded that the market square isnt the place to stand around and chat.
Last edited by Glim on Fri May 13, 2005 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gwain » Fri May 13, 2005 1:47 am

I think a pc walking in and out for fifteen minutes straight without any rp save exiting and reentering might be a bit spammy, Jadom. That is what I was talking about.

With all due respect I don't care what happens either way, but there are paths around the market if you are into the quick dashes through, I don't usually complain, I was just trying to point out some things I find strange and what might take away from rp or fill the room with unneccessary lines of spam-like text. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. But I think if you are going to walk in and out of a room with no rp for a long period of time continuosly then you might want to take it to another room. As I said, Waterdeep is huge, has many public squares and such.
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Post by Argentia » Fri May 13, 2005 3:26 pm

Maybe a room prog then or something, so everyone once in a while an echo pops up having some street urchin or somebody earning a few coins by touting the fine food, drink and companionship of the Lucky Drunk
This is essentially the same idea and is just as spammy. :(
Of course the guard wouldnt mind people trading, but how many PCs in the square are actually doing business? Most are standing there talking, yes, some are trading, but MOST arent, and I dont think a guard would like that, it is a bustling place and a crowd of people merely standing there talking would stop the flow of traffic
So you're saying the RP of people who join the merchants' guild, or dwarves who sell their equipment is unimportant? They are rare, yes, but still very fun and I don't think it's fair to take away their RP oppertunities...

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of RPing in the Lucky Drunk. But I feel it would be better to have both the MS and the LD open for RPing. MS is large, as has been stated, so adventurers could find open area to hang around(IE by the fountain, away from traffic and merchants).

I remember back when I RPed in WotC's chatroom(The Emporium/The Crossroads Tavern, for those of you who might remember. :) ) one of the rooms was a large market. I recall the way meeting people was RPed was that people were spread apart, maybe one or two sitting at a table, a few in the garden, others by the note board, ect., and people only interacted with other people in that general area.(For example, people in the garden would have to shout to get the attention of people at the MSGB) That gave the market a nice sense of realism, despite its 2 dimensioned, text based design.(Hey, we all prove that our imaginations make this world come alive, right? :) ) Ehh, that doesn't exactly pertain to anything, but it's a nice suggestion for anyone who wants to follow it. :lol:

I can't remember where I was going with this... But anyway, I support RPing in both the MS and LD.
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Post by Sarjako » Fri May 13, 2005 8:13 pm

I view Market Square as I do any other metropolitan square. Large, bustling, loud and large. It's not a small room, it's a market. And for all the guard knows, the groups of people hanging around are merchants and traders. Public squares are open for everyone. Not just shoppers.
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Post by Jadom » Sat May 14, 2005 5:11 am

Argentia wrote: This is essentially the same idea and is just as spammy. :(
But it would be more IC. And again, just because the code spoils you by not making you deal with all the things you would ICly have to if you were trying to carry on a serious conversation in a crowded marketplace with children crying, parents yelling at the children to stop crying, merchants yelling at the parents to buy them this bauble to keep them from crying etc. etc., doesn't mean you should not have to deal with the inconvenience of somebody walking through the Square a few times.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of RPing in the Lucky Drunk. But I feel it would be better to have both the MS and the LD open for RPing. MS is large, as has been stated, so adventurers could find open area to hang around(IE by the fountain, away from traffic and merchants).
While it has been mentioned that one of the purposes of the Lucky Drunk was to try to draw RP to somewhere else in WD other than the MS, nobody has advocated abandoning MS, or forcing players to go elsewhere. What people don't advocate is demanding that other players be forced to accomodate RP in MS by not disrupting it with the heinous crime of criss-crossing the Market when the code blissfully allows you to ignore what would ICly actually be going on in the Square.

And mind you, I'm not pretending to be innocent here, while Jadom has gone to the Lucky Drunk on a few occasions for specific roleplays, he spends a great deal of his time standing around the Square. But I don't think everyone else should be forced to accomodate me.
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Post by Argentia » Sat May 14, 2005 11:41 pm

While it has been mentioned that one of the purposes of the Lucky Drunk was to try to draw RP to somewhere else in WD other than the MS, nobody has advocated abandoning MS, or forcing players to go elsewhere
Ehh, that's exactly what some people are suggesting, getting people to stop RPing in the square. Hence the echos/guard says telling people to move along.(As in, do not RP there) At least that's how I view it.

The original intention of this post was simply to politely ask people to go around the market square if possible, and I think we have lost sight of that. It is not a difficult task, and it was a simple request to help people RP more smoothly and without OOC intteruption. Yes, we know the place is busy IC, but there is no need for us to make it harder than it needs to be OOCly to RP there.
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