Sound Burst

[Isolrem]

Just a minor note, but can Sound Burst (and similar spells) be made to affect all (hostile) characters as opposed to just one? We could use more of those spells.

[Zilvryn]

I might have misunderstood, but sound burst (and similar spells like, magic missile, acid arrow, etc) target a single mob. That's the way they work, if you want spells that affect groups of mobs, you have fireball (which also hits you).

*edited to remove what, with the benefit of hindsight, could be considered rather mean and short-tempered. Pardon me.

[Isolrem]

this is to give an all room effective spell to clerics that can affect none undeads as well
and, yes, I mean it to be like, say, fireball
I hope this wouldn't offend anyone
it also explains why one person gets his/her ears pierced by the screech and the one right next to him is unharmed.

[Talamar]

The problem with that is that clerics aren't really known for their Area of Effect spells, at least in my opinion.

The reason one person is affected by an ear piercing screech, is they are the only one that hears it, as per the spell.


Personally I think Sound burst makes sense. It's a spell that hurts your target and can possibly stun them. I don't believe it needs to affect more than one person at a time.

[Natasha]

The reason people are encouraged to adventure is because not any one class can do everything... generally speaking. Since you can't cast nice multiple opponent spells, bring that Wizard friend who can't cast healing spells on himself along.

Natasha

[Dalvyn]

Zilvryn : Some spells do indeed target a single opponent. Other spells have areas of effects and (potentially- as in, they might get a saving throw) affect all those who are in this area. More about the fireball thing below.

Talamar : Check the spell description, it has a 10ft radius (spread) area of effect, it's not a single-target spell. Just like flame strike, or bless, or prayer, or ... many other clerical spells. I don't think clerics have less area-of-effect spells than wizards. They might have less offensive spells overall, but not less area-of-effect spells.

Natasha : I doubt that making spells affect more than one target (as per the D&D rules) will suddenly make one class able to do everything on their own. A 1d8-damage sound burst will never equate a 10d6-damage fireball.


One of the major problem of a text mud (with respect to table-top games or graphical games) is that the mud does not use 3 dimensions. Actually, it does not even use 2 dimensions or 1 dimension, but 0 dimension, meaning that, when you are in a room with mobs and other characters, all of you/them are basically considered to be exactly in the same place.

There are some "patches" that have been added to try and partially fix this problem. Preventing non-flying mobs from attacking flying characters is one of them, although, as soon as the flying character casts a spell, the mob suddenly (and unreastically) manages to fly up to them (or the caster stupidly flies down to be within the range of the mob's fists/weapons). Another is the combat formation, although even if you are in the back row, you can be hurt, and so on, so it's not 100% proof either.

To be honest, when playing a wizard (or any other spell caster) in table-top, I nearly never have to make a concentration check (because it is possible in 99% of the situations to take a 5ft-step backward before casting and thus avoid being hit), and when using area of effect spells, I make sure I don't fireball/sound burst/... them.

With that in mind, I think it would be a good idea to check the spells and make "area of effect" spells affect either all the members of the caster's group or all the opponents of the room (= all the creatures that are fighting someone who is in the caster's group). This would include spells like bless, sound burst, turn undead, lightning bolt, fireball (<- making it affect everybody in the room renders it useless, it's like adding to the fact that the mud is 0-dimensional), flamestrike, ice storm, ...

I could also see perhaps a mix of Dex and Int to determine (for offensive spells) if opponents are hit or not (i.e. whether the caster has correctly placed the spell). For example, in a room with 3 opponents mob1, mob2, and mob3, c 'lightning bolt' mob2 would always hit mob2, and have some chance (depending on a combination of Dex and Int) of hitting mob1 and mob3.

Spells could also have a limit to how many opponents they would hit. For example, sound burst and flamestrike can (according to the rule) hit at most 12 normal-sized enemies, same for flamestrike, fireball would have a much higher limit (I don't know the exact number).

[Glim]

Hmm, Dalvyn, I was always under the impression that flamestrike hit only one person, but looking under the PH it says it has a 10 ft radius, 40 ftt high. So, unless some people are doing a human ladder, im not sure what you mean about it being able to hit 12 people it might be able to hit a few more than one if they were standing close together, but im not sure about 12.

As to lightning bolt and such, I beleive it should have a chance of hitting another mob, perhaps if one got in the way or was standing behind the mob you were aiming at.

Im not sure about how dexerity or intelligence would affect how your aiming went, basically unless the spell says different (like you have to roll and unarmed touch attack or such) or the target succeeds at their saving throw, I would think that the spell would hit every time. Which I think would be a welcome addition, SAVING THROWS!!!

They could depend on level and the class that your character is or some such.

I had an old DM who I would have a continually have a nice debate on spells, he would insist that you had to give a dexterity modified AC to their chance of dodging a spell, but I would basically tell him that those were the reasons they had saving throws to most spells, reflex saving throw meaning they would dodge out of the way.

As to spells like bless or curse or some such, a modified version called mass bless or mass curse that effected your whole party or everyone in the room would be nice.

Hmm, would it ever be possible to be able to designate more than one target for a spell?

i.e.
cast 'flame arrow' Dalvyn, Zilvryn, Talamar

Something like that, hmm?

[Dalvyn]

I was talking about maximum numbers there. Consider the following diagram, where each square is 5ft x 5ft (a D&D "square" for one medium-sized person). The * symbol designates the central point of the spell.

Code: Select all

+-+-+-+-+
| | | | |
+-+-+-+-+
| | | | |
+-+-*-+-+
| | | | |
+-+-+-+-+
| | | | |
+-+-+-+-+

If the radius is 10ft (that is, 2 squares), the squares marked with # are affected. Twelve squares, so at most 12 persons (in a very crowded environment).

Code: Select all

+-+-+-+-+
| |#|#| |
+-+-+-+-+
|#|#|#|#|
+-+-*-+-+
|#|#|#|#|
+-+-+-+-+
| |#|#| |
+-+-+-+-+

As to lightning bolt and such, I beleive it should have a chance of hitting another mob, perhaps if one got in the way or was standing behind the mob you were aiming at.

Well, you fail to take something into consideration: the wizard is neither dumb nor unable to move. A wizard facing several opponents would first move into an advantageous position, from where casting a lightning bolt would enable him to hit more than one of the opponents. Currently, the mud does not take this into account this possibility and consider that the mage is standing there, casting right in front of the mobs, allowing them to attack him (thus requiring concentration checks that wouldn't be needed in table-top), and aiming the lightning bolt at only one of them. Similarly, there's no way to determine whether someone gets in the way or is standing behind someone else.

Im not sure about how dexerity or intelligence would affect how your aiming went, basically unless the spell says different (like you have to roll and unarmed touch attack or such) or the target succeeds at their saving throw, I would think that the spell would hit every time.

I suggested Dex and Int as a way to determine whether or not the wizard managed to "place" the spell optimally (choose the center point so that as many opponents as possible are affected, and so on). In table-top, this is based on the player's skill.

As to spells like bless or curse or some such, a modified version called mass bless or mass curse that effected your whole party or everyone in the room would be nice.

Well, there are two different things here. Bless is supposed to target the whole group. It's not an unbalancing spell. And making it affect the whole group of the caster if it is not targetted would not be a problem.

Curse on the other hand is a single-target spell. Perhaps you are mixing it with Doom (which is the opposite of Bless)?

[Glim]

Ahh yea, I see how it could possible affect 12 people, (though I never really pictured flamestrike as that big, games distort it a little) though true that would be in a very crowded environment.

If it made it so that lightning bolt hit more than one person, how would it be any different from chain lightning, im not sure if they do more damage though?

And yes, I beleive I am confusing it with doom, though I dont beleive doom is in the game and probably the closest thing would be curse.

Personally im all for making spells better, I dont beleive there are enough (sorry if this sounds as complaining here or ingratitude, just stating an opinion) nor do I beleive are spells powerful enough to properly represent their counterparts in D&D. This is ussually either from unable to represent them in a mud atmosphere or not enough damage for the level of the mage to make up for the hitpoints of the opponents a high level mage ussually faces. Currently, if you based them on spells, a lvl 50 wizard would still only be around lvl 10, give or take a few lvls, for their D&D counterparts.

[Dalvyn]

If it made it so that lightning bolt hit more than one person, how would it be any different from chain lightning, im not sure if they do more damage though?

If you want to follow the books and distinguish between the two spells, you need to consider at least 2 dimensions.

Or it could be made so that lightning bolt can affect max 3 opponents, while chain lightning would automatically affect all opponents in the room.

[Dalvyn]

Just something I thought about, before people complain that it is not realistic to let area of effect spells target that many opponents. It is actually easier to affect that many victims when you can place the origin of the spell wherever you want and have a wide radius of 10ft than it is to make a whirlwind movement with a (less-than-) 5ft-long weapon. So, my point is: if someone can attack everybody in a room with "hitall", there is 0 reason to prevent casters from targetting that many persons with an area of effect spell.

[Glim]

I agree perfectly Dalvyn, sometimes you can stretch a few things to accomodate a mud environment, and adding more area of affect spells would increase the power of spellcasters, something that im always in favor of.

Just wondering, but is it possible to code area of affect spells so that they hit everyone in the room except for those in your party? I know in D&D whenever I am trying to position AoF spells, I ussually know the range and try to cast it so that even if the warriors are in melee with the monsters, the edge of the spell's range falls just short of my party members. Unless of course you can already do that.

[Dalvyn]

I think it would be better if such spells actually targetted all opponents. The difference with your suggestion is about "innocent by-standers", that is, creatures that are not part of your group, nor part of the your opponents.

I guess you would target only your opponents and not those in the room who do not attack you.

[Glim]

Hmm, would it only attack you, meaning you the mage, or you as the party you are in? Because I can think of many times where I have been in a party and not a single creature was actively attacking me (meaning a warrior/tank/big meathead was taking all the damage) but I was damaging it. The difference, of course, is that the former would mean a smaller selection of opponents, while the latter would have a larger amount for your AoE spells to hit.