Death: pain or opportunity?

[Sia]

Along the lines of hauntings/Nedylene's idea of wraiths.. perhaps a character with the sufficient amount of kismet/mana/luck/other factors I haven't considered yet, could "possess" certain NPCs or even objects for a short amount of time?

Honestly, I don't even know if that would be code-able, but I've had "Be Our Guest" from Disney's Beauty and the Beast singing in my head to trigger the idea.

~Sia

[Gwain]

What about being given the choice of going to your fate, the realm of death or lingering with unfinished business? There are those that die and go to rest in the realm of the dead but there are also those that fight to linger in the world of the living maybe even possesing creatures and requiring closure or exorcisim to be sent on their way. A restless spirit loses itself as it exists and turns into a foul form meant to be vanquished or it comes back and pounds the preverbial door of the planes of life seeking to find the answer to only a question it knows. Soul searching and wandering seem like interesting possiblilities as long as they are'nt abused and abide by rp.

[Lathlain]

Ooooh, I like that idea... But would those who opted to stay then need to be exorcised before they could go the realm of the dead? Would ghosts be granted a completely free reign, or would they be restricted to haunt only the areas around their point-of-death/hometown?

[Micheal]

I must admit this has some intriguing possiblities. I think it would be great if necromancers could have skills that deal with the actual dead. Trap their spirit, pull it back unwantedly, posses people when they are dead, maybe even cast spells from the dead. Maybe you could make it so that the most powerful necromancers just die, and just are spirits without bodies that inhabit the other world. Maybe you could make it so that high level Kelemvorites do the same to battle injustice in death. Maybe you could have quests by the living to the land of the dead to do battle with possesing evil wizards. This idea of the dead touching the living or the living touching the dead has some very good ramifications, but I don't think that just anyone should be able to do it, there should be special circumstances to warrant the ability to haunt, but what they are, I dont' know.

[Rhianon]

So much potential for abuse, people killing people just to posses them, and abuse the spirit, just random killing so they have a toy to play with, no I think this is not such a good idea.

[Jerigo]

I don't know if this is an aspect of Forgotten Realms or not, but would there be such a thing as a struggle for power within the realms of the dead? If so, it would be interesting if a struggle between good and evil could exist in the realms of the dead much in the same way as it does in the land of the living. If crossing back into the realms of the living were made more difficult it might result in characters conducting very significant roleplay in the realms of the dead with other characters who have died. I don't know exactly what kind of scope these roleplays could have, but maybe they could have the potential to influence things in the realms of the living.

As a side note, not having read very much FR material at all, I don't know if any of what I just said applies to the game or not. So if those of you who do have more knowledge of the game could possibly comment on my ideas in the context of the game, I would appreciate it.

[Kirkus]

The realms of the dead are actually really elaborate in FR. There is a whole city ruled by Kelemvor and Jergal. Lots of demons to badger the souls of the dead and what not. Followers of other gods are taken by agents of their god to their gods home plane. The Baatezu are there trying to recruit souls for service of the Nine Hells. The Tanar'ri basically just try to steal souls from the City of Judgement to their home in the Abyss so there is constant conflict between the Tanar'ri and souls of Followers of Jergal and Kelemvor who try to stop the Tanar'ri. Basically as soon as someone builds the realms of the dead there will be an amazing ammount of rp opportunity there.

[Tychina]

What about being given the choice of going to your fate, the realm of death or lingering with unfinished business?

I like that idea, I currently have a pc who I have refused to raise for a LONG time because of rp situation. If that char could have become a ghost, it owuld have been ideal for that particular rp! But not every person that dies has a reason to become a ghost, so I do think the option of choice should be left to the player.

But would those who opted to stay then need to be exorcised before they could go the realm of the dead?

And once back in the realm of the dead, could they still be raised?

Would ghosts be granted a completely free reign, or would they be restricted to haunt only the areas around their point-of-death/hometown?

Or maybe to haunt the person that betrayed them, or killed them?

[Zuldere]

after read some post about death no people on at certain times to bring one back and the lack for priest I thought of a idea. So for good or bad here it is.

I was thinking if in stead of going to the deathroom apon your death you become a spirit or ghost depends on what you like to call it. Ic reason be you died vilantly and your spirit walks the planes(Just a idea.) as a spirit/ghost the living can not see you and all the can make out is a haunting sound when you speak unless if they have the right skill or spell spirit talk or some such. which certain faith or class can have.I will explain it more.

-Faith like Kelemvor since he is the god of dead his worshippers would have the (ie:priest,wizards,warriors and who ever else follows him.)
-Class wise I see some priest and necromancer and conjours would get it.
necromancer would becouse they deal with the dead and conjours becouse they can summon the dead.

I know the biggest complain be what if they are no one on. I have one for that to.I do not know about anyone else but my char after joining a faith and pleasing my diety enough to part with nice gift I have nothing to use my favours for. I was think that if your favoir is high enough you can go to your place of worship and have a priest to bring you back to life. And those to low level to have a faith or just do not want one you can plege to a diety and do quest geared to that church and get favour that way but that can only be used to be brought back to life.And if by chance you are still to low on the favours you can ask someone who can see and hear you to bring you back or use there favours instead of yours.

This is just a idea I had there more to it but being tired and having to many misspelling I leave it here.

[Levine]

Unless I misunderstood your post.. I think this has been discussed here.

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=2343

[Levine]

Unless I misunderstood your post.. I think this has been discussed here.

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=2343

-gissy

EDIT: My apologies.. I accidentally clicked on submit too early. Would someone be so kind as to delete the previous one for me? Really sorry.

[Andreas]

From what I've seen lately, PC death is still treated as a minor inconvenience rather than the traumatic experience that it should be.

I applaud the stat reduction code and would like to propose another idea that might make more of an impact on PCs who treat death like it was just a bad case of the flu - a death timer.

PC dies, goes to the Fugue Plain and then has to either get another PC priest to resurrect them (preferred method), get another PC to take their corpse to an NPC for resurrection (only to be used if there are no PC priests on who can help), supplicate resurrection, pray for divine intervention (please don't spam the prayer boards, one prayer is all it takes) or reincarnate.

Unfortunately, it seems like everyone prefers the last method. Opps! I died. Reincarnate. Run off to grab equipment. I'd like to see a timer added to dead PCs that prevents instant reincarnation. The higher the level the PC, the longer the wait. After all, high level PCs SHOULD have enough sense not to die constantly. This timer would also prevent NPC resurrection right away.

I.e. Betty dies. She doesn't know any PC priests or there are none available to raise her. She can't reincarnate right away and Veronica can't have her raised at an NPC priest right away either. After her death timer counts down to 0, she can either reincarnate or be raised by the NPC priest. If Betty had enough favour, she could have supplicated resurrection without worrying about the death timer count.

Betty dies again. This time Archie is there to cast raise dead and the death timer is negated.

This doesn't mean dead PCs can't use any of the other methods available (PC priest, supplicate resurrection or praying), it just means that if they want to reincarnate or use an NPC priest, they'll have to wait until a certain amount of time passes before doing so. I suggest making the timer 1 RL minute/level of PC with a 1d10 minute modifier for random times. Yes, this does indeed mean that a 50th level PC who dies and can't come back through conventional means (PC/supplicate/prayer) might very well have to wait for an HOUR before being able to reincarnate or be raised by a NPC priest. I feel this would give a lot more importance to death and how dangerous adventuring really is!

[Gwain]

I would like to propose a kismet cost to go along with the use of reincarnate. I've found recently that there are many instances where reincarnate is used and generally at times when it could be avoided. I've seen pc's die and in mid sentence a few moments later reincarnate and leave. It has been said in helpfile how the reincarnate function is at best a last resort once you have exhausted all other available options and the fact that it lowers your constitution permanently. I think a minium kismet requirement might help stress the graveness of this command function and help newer players avoid using it. Of course this might seem extreme but reincarnation itself is an extreme measure, it defies reality and roleplay. Meaning that it is seldom possible in reality and fr. It is the supreme last go, and though it seems like a grand idea, it takes away from the chance to rp with others for recovery.

Reincarnate: A dead player may choose to reincarnate AS A LAST RESORT if they
are unable to find other players to help them return to life, either a player
priest or npc priest to cast raise dead or resurrect on them. Reincarnate
will incur a loss of experience and a permanent reduction of the characters
constitition. This option is avaialable before or after a corpse has decayed.
The character returns to life at the recall point of their hometown leaving
the body, if any, where ever it list at the time of reincarnation. Reincarnate
is a last resort for returning to life to be used only after all other methods
including praying to the gods for mercy, have been exhausted.

[Rorix]

Although I am generally reluctant to agree with making more things cost kismet, this is one area where I think proven experience in the mud should come into play. I do not think it should cost hardly any kismet at all. I think the cost would be more another reenforcement that this is in fact a big deal. I have seen the same as Gwain. Newer players that drop and it seems before you can see their death cry, they are back in the square. I think an additional warning of the cost of kismet and the effect it has on your character should be implemented. There may be something like this in place, but I have not reincarnated for quite some time.

A major problem lower level players face is not having a deity to pray to. They do not see the option of praying to a deity to bring them back to life because they do not have a symbol. They also generally do not have anyone to communicate to as they have only met a few people. I think this kismet cost and an additional echo might get them thinking "Hey, maybe I can be a little more patient for a little longer and see if someone comes along to help."

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

[Exer]

Don't forget that every time you reincarnate past lvl 10 you lose one point of constitution.

Below lvl 10 it's free but, if you associate a kismet cost with reincarnate, a new player that just joined the mud will have little or no kismet to spend. Thus no way of coming back from the dead. They probably don't have many greeted either to ask them for help. Lastly, I doubt asking the gods to add this to their list of to-do's is a great idea, from what I understand, they are quite busy.

I don't have a solution for you, other than, say, having a mandatory 'death' time before reincarnating. Say five minutes?

Thoughts?

[Andreas]

I think this is a good idea.

If it's done on a sliding scale, lower level characters would have a small kismet fee to reincarnate while higher level characters would obviously have a large kismet fee to reincarnate.

I don't think newbies skip the praying option because they don't have a faith, I think it's because they don't realise they can pray to GODS instead of just one specific god.

[Rorix]

That sounds like a good alternative to this idea. I think 5 - 10 min. is enough time. It will still force them to think over the options they may have, but in the end will not restrict them from going through with the decision. I am fairly sure most people know the consequences of this action, but I still think there should be a conformation echo telling you what will happen and asking you if you are sure you want to go through with it. Nice alternate solution Exer.

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

[Rorix]

I don't think newbies skip the praying option because they don't have a faith, I think it's because they don't realise they can pray to GODS instead of just one specific god.

While I still feel that not having a faith deters players from praying (from personal and other's experience when we were new), I do agree that players do not realize they can pray to the gods as a whole. Any ideas for how we could more readily let players know this is an option? It is in the help file, so I guess I do not see any other way to let people know. Maybe in the echo I suppose.

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

[Kregor]

So in a prompt that would pop up, saying "are you sure you want to reincatnate" include the fact that a player can pray to GODS as one of the options, meaning all of them, and if they really really still want to reincarnate, they'll have to type "yes." to do it.

Maybe education can take the place of kismet punishment, or like was said above, nothing for a <lvl10, a point or two for >lvl10 (which someone >lvl10 should at least have an hour under their belt, and a 1 kisment penalty would seem like a large cost to a newbie for carelessness about death.) and a sizeable penalty for a higher level player who goes that route. Sadly I have seen at least one experienced player with plenty of kismet racked up, with priests online, hit reincarnate within seconds of dying.

Of course, I like the delay time too.... I think both.

[Tandria]

I really, really like this idea.

All too often have I seen the death, reincarnate, get stuff quick and go back to what was going on before. The cost of kismet to reincarnate would stress the importance of RPing out deaths and looking for PC or imm help before doing that.

I like Andreas's suggestion about making the cost increase with levels. Generally at lower levels, the PC knows fewer people and is less likely to find someone to help 'em out. Plus, the option is available to those playing when imms are less likely to play.

Thank you for suggesting this. I don't like the reincarnate command, but I don't think it should be taken away as an option.