Improving Game Economy

[Arathin]

You can build all the mansions you want. Help dwellings. Even though it is on hold at the moment, most high levelers do aspire toward building a house.

[Xenia]

Alright, so I know everyone has been waiting for me to say something. Heheh, As a PC merchant of the realms I see that people and players are really treating items and spells as though they are nothing. Everyone is always out there to get the best items or just have a wizards cast all these buffs on them to go show off their twinkishness. Well anyhow I just wanna stress that if this were a real game not everyone would have Full Chain mail or all that, many would be wearing leathers or cloths. And the way I think it should be is as in any economic culture, if nobody wants to purchase your item or spell, BARGIN! And if you don't wanna purchase at a quoted price...BARGIN! Listen if you go to a southren Flea Market, you aren't going to keep your money long if you don't BARGIN! so treat this as a chance to rp your negotiations....and such. I think that the PC economy can change greatly if your PC learns to take advantage of Merchants or The skills and spells you posess. Thanks!

[Telk]

Well Xenia, the thing you must realize is that the player base could be considered generally not your typical person walking on the streets. They could be considered adventurers or other things at that. The millions of MOBs walking around that aren't coded could be considered the average person walking along the streets, and yes they should (and are) clothed in cloth or even leather.

You can't necessarily say "You shouldn't wear anything but leather or cloth to make the game more realistic" to someone because it is there choice to do so and it is their characters RP.

Hope this doesn't sound like a flame. And hope I wasn't just rambling

Telk

[Xenia]

I am not saying you only should wear cloth or leather to make the game or realistic, its just that I am noticing people are only wearing the stuff that would protect them more instead of the stuff that would be more RP and they are going after the quest stuff as opposed to the mundane stuff. I mean honestly would EVERYONE have a magical helm or boots? No...Weapons that have magical properties would boost the value up A LOT and if it glows that adds at least one to two platnium in my eyes.
That is just something I have noticed is people really are playing the game as though it were a video game and they conquered the great mountain and recieved the ice axe of doom, instead of having a discussion with a passerby about the great gods speaking from the heavens. Just something I have noticed. Now I am prolly rambaling.

[Isolrem]

By almost all accounts glow actually adds a 10% value + 10 gold
It would be a stretch, I think, to say that many players enjoy twinking, I'm still for eventually inc orporating more things in the game to spend money on. For example, a warrior might pass on the uberly powerful axe and instead pay for the services of a few cronies/mercenaries that follows him around for three game years. Nifty, but no unrealistic.

[Telk]

I am noticing people are only wearing the stuff that would protect them more instead of the stuff that would be more RP and they are going after the quest stuff as opposed to the mundane stuff. I mean honestly would EVERYONE have a magical helm or boots? No...Weapons that have magical properties would boost the value up A LOT and if it glows that adds at least one to two platnium in my eyes.

Not everyone does have a magical helm or boots as I stated in my post.

If I were to walk out on the street and helped someone out and they gave me a nice pair of shoes I wouldn't stick them away in my closet and not wear them, would you?

Magical items do boost the value up quite a bit from mundane items.

However I feel that this is getting a bit IC, I hope my points were clear.

Telk

[Angelita]

I have to agree with those who think the game economy is good as is. I mean I havent been around this game for too long here, but in the time that I have, I think that everything is well spread out. As for those who make a lot of money on the ogres, well in real life we have people who are richer than everyone else too, I mean look at Bill Gates, he doesnt use up all his money all the time, and I'm tired of hearing about the economy IRL let's have some RP fun and forget about the stupid ECONOMY!

[Mele]

Game economy is not solely who has more money than who. Game economy is about the entire game and how the CITIES are doing for money, not players. I believe that people having a ton of coin and the cities having so little they can't even buy a piece of cloth is a problem.

Danica

[Angelita]

I don't know about that, I mean this is a game, and I mean we have to draw the line of where reality and fantasy are. When I sit down to play a game, I don't want to think about the things I have to think about in everyday life that are annoying, like the economy of cities. I think if you look at it as there are hundreds of other Npc characters within these realms, they are buying and shopping, and us the PC players are pretty much just wanders from town to town. We make very little difference when it comes to the bigger numbers of the assumed NPC's, IMO (there now that I know what it means!!! Thanks Lathander!)

~Katie~
~Angelita~
~Citorae~

[Isolrem]

A MUD is about as in depth as a game can go, but it still is a long way from reality. City economy is invariably based on reboots more than on income, there are no droughts or other disasters to reflect poor produces, no player controlling city economy and adjusting it so that the smarter city leaders make more. Intercity trade, economic benefic from nearby resources, etc. are not portrayed in the game because they, in effect, do not affect player gameplay. And until sweeping changes are made in almost every part of this already fairly advanced MUD, it shouldn't; and nor should players be taxed to reflect its absence.

[Gwain]

Actually, the economy is player driven, meaning that for example, if you sell your lovely things in Waterdeep, over and over and do not bother to buy anything from the merchants, they will reach a point where they cannot buy anymore or that they cannot give you a good price for an object because they lack coin themselves. The economy varies from place to place, often larger city centres with more inns and shops tend to have larger economies while smaller places do not. The thing you need to do if you choose to do it icly is think as you sell something and buy, that what you are doing will alter the economy. It's not compulsory or forced, it is just a feature of the mud. You can rp with it or choose to conduct your business as you see fit by seeking out other venues. The important thing to understand that this is an rp mud, a game and you can choose to accept situations or close your mind to them, as long as you stay within the rules and such. Remember to have fun and be patient.

[Hviti]

Taking the example of Waterdeep, buying from player merchants simply does not occur because perhaps ten of the items the merchants offer are bought regularly by the very same higher levels who unload MOB eq on them. The few times a player buys something from the merchants (A new character buying studded leather or the like) its cost (maybe 10 plat for a full suit) comes nowhere -near- balancing out all that platemail from somewhere that cost the merchants 30-40 plat per piece. About the only times I have seen high level characters buy items from the WD merchants were when the items were something they needed to make far more money than that they spent on it (the empty flask at a couple of copper to a 10-30 plat potion being a prime example) or items that they needed to complete quests. Now, maybe items merchants sell could be multiplied in price by three or four or even more times, but then all the new characters wandering out of the newbie area with ten silver or thereabouts would suffer until they found some sort of 'money-leveling' ability.

This might be only a partial solution, but I think that one way to make rich characters spend a bit more coin then they do now would be to change the price of food items. Now, certain items (like standard rations and so on) ought to remain quite cheap, as they are now, so that new characters do not starve to death. However, I have wondered sometimes why certain food items do not cost more than they do. You can buy a whole pig for what, a couple of silver? There's got to be something wrong with that (or pigs just are kinda pests in FR). Food items could increase in price based on how complicated their makeup/preparation time would be. Simple rations could be cheap, since they probably are just dried meat or fruit or something of the sort, loaves of bread could be set at a few gold, since they could be mass produced but would take somewhat more effort to make, and a main dish like a roast pig or an exotic item not normally found in WD could cost 5+ plat (since the pig would take more time and effort and the exotic item would take more time, effort, and a knowledgeable and hopefully good and/or famous cook (therefore an expensive chef)).

Now, what would this do for the economy? Possibly very little. Players could just buy the cheap newbie food to keep themselves from starving. However, those who wanted to show off their wealth among others would have a new and unique way to do it. "Hey, I can afford UberMasterChef John's hotdogs, come try them!(for evils use "and you can't!" instead of those last three words)". Increased food prices would add much to planning of events (such as weddings), where rather then spending 10 plat to outfit a case of two or more of over thirty different items of food from all sorts of places the bill could run to hundreds of platinum. Feasts would (as in the middle ages) prove to some degree how rich you were (Can you afford only a simple roast fowl, or can you afford a peacock with all its feathers stuck back in to give the illusion or life?). At any rate, much increased food prices -might- make players spend more for various reasons (and possibly promote RP). They would also provide another purpose for the wonderful variety of foods the builders have coded (other than quests and RP, of course).


IMO there aren't very many good solutions for the general game economy problem that would not make new players or those who simply do not earn much coin unhappy.

I had a bunch more ideas about food, but all the rambling made me loose them .

Sorry for making this so darn long .

[Argentia]

One thing I cannot stress enough is that above all else, I wholeheartedly do NOT want to see changes that will make the poor even poorer. It is a difficult RP not to accumulate wealth, to have maybe 10 plat at the most on you at any time. Some characters are like this by choice, others cannot help it. Either way, it can be frustrating not having the money to buy things you want/need, or learn new skills and spells.

That said, I would rather not see a change that makes it even more difficult on these poor characters just because a few people are camping and gaining large amounts of money. My characters have already stopped using the banking system because they have such little money that when they deposit it, the platinum or so it takes away is significant to them.

All I ask is that you keep everyone in mind, both rich and poor. And remember to keep the game fun; reality is not always fun.

[Isolrem]

The reason that people buying cheap items should even out with them selling expensive ones is that there are maybe a score of heroes with stuff to sell and a million people in Waterdeep to buy standard supplies.
A whole pig would cost no more than a few silvers, and in reality standard rations would cost something like a dozen for a copper. The price of food in the game is already elevated, and rightfully so.

[Telk]

Like Isolrem said food prices make IC sense. I have read FR novels where ale usually only costs 1-2 copper. And most inns don't even have food or drink to sell for one gold. I think that 5 platinum would be a bit outrageous for any single course food item. I don't think changing the food prices to ridiculous amounts IC would help solve the problem much.
Telk

[Telk]

I was googling around and found this:

At the beginning of 2004, Stillwater thought all its products would benefit from higher metals prices as platinum average $846 per ounce for the year and closed 2004 at $860/oz.

http://www.mineweb.net/sections/platinum/428819.htm

Just to give everyone a estimate of what platinum prices are nowadays. Hope it'll help

[Hviti]

The reason that people buying cheap items should even out with them selling expensive ones is that there are maybe a score of heroes with stuff to sell and a million people in Waterdeep to buy standard supplies.

Yeah, but do those million want a bunch of crude leather arm guards or suits of fire giant armor that will burn them to death? IMO not really. If the items that were sold to the merchants would be bought by the average person out there on the streets of WD, then all well and good...but who wants dented axes and broken armor?

Edit: Also, in FK is a gold approximately equal to a dollar or is a platinum supposed to be around that? I'm not sure that RL platinum prices translate to what it's worth in FK, especially since there don't seem to be any fiduciary currencies out there.

[Gwain]

here is a coin equivilancy list from the helpfile on coinage.

The following is a list of the coins equivalent value in copper:

1 copper = 1 copper
1 silver = 10 copper
1 electrum = 50 copper
1 gold = 100 copper
1 platinum = 500 copper

Really coin standards are dictated by the prices set by merchants and other individuals. Set prices vary based on how much coin is available at the time and how much coin a character or mob is will to accept, and of course how well a charisma count is measured against a pc within rp and within coding.

[Hviti]

Er, I was referring to about how FK 'currency' translates to RL currency, not in game denominations. (but thanks anyway, Gwain )

[Isolrem]

A copper is a dollar by most standards. A platinum is 500.