Stat Requirements

[Layem]

It has come to my attention that certain quests have stat requirements. Usually, so I've been told, it's a high CHA level. I've also been told that this has been implimented to deter twinking, which is understandable. You don't want people dropping their CHA to 1 and putting the points elsewhere just to be power houses. However, should the limits be on stats that have little to do with the quest?

For example, there is a quest where a person is in desperate need of help. He requires a high CHA to start. Does it make sense that a person in desperate need of help accept your aid based on what you look like?

What I'm asking, really, is for stat requirements to reflect upon the quest and not just be a random stat that people drop to raise another. Maybe there can be some other way to limited twinkage, but the current way doesn't make much sense ICly. If it's a combat oriented quest, have a STR or a CON requirement, if it's intellectually based, have an INT or a WIS requirement.

[Elwin]

Hmm, I would say that that's a fair request, though if you take the requirement away completely, with the new char gen system, players will drop their cha as low as possible and raise all the other ones. Maybe if it just had a lower requirement, say 12 or 10, so that people couldnt lower it as much as possible. Just my thoughts.

[Athon]

I agree with what has been said. The quests are having CHA requirements that are higher than most characters in the game would have. I think this deters more from the game as a lot of characters cannot do these quests and those characters aren't even twinks. Lowering the requirement to 10 or 12 would still help the twinking by requiring them to still put stats into other categories and it would still allow the other characters to do the quests.

Also, I think that wizard quests should have int requirements, warrior quests should have strength/con requirements, etc. That would allow the classes to get rewards more specific for their class.

[Telk]

I understand what you are saying and have thought about this myself. I think upon people lowering it to a really low level that you can only lower it so far. Back to the point I don't think if someone was in dire need of help they'd look at a adventurer and then just look away because they're not physically appealing. I also understand that CHA is what your personality is, but even if you are rude, chances are someone would still ask you for help. What I think would make more sense for some quests, and this is probably already implemented for various quests would be for a wisdom check I could see that as more likely then they aren't pretty enough, or they haven't been gifted with that great of a personality. I also think this would deter twinking for the rogue and warrior classes. Some quests I could see a CHA check coming into affect. But others I cannot really see it.

Just my thoughts.

[Hviti]

Some wizard quests already have an int check.

[Mele]

I think we are forgetting here that CHA is not only how someone looks but it's general appeal of the person. And yea, way skippy if someone with a low CHA, grumpybutt facehead comes to me and I'm desperate, I am so not going to ask them for help I'm going to wait for the next person who looks like they'd be more willing to help. That is most definately logical.

Danica

[Athon]

If somone is going to be a "grumpybutt facehead," I would imagine their CHA would be at least below 8. Most of these stat requirements for CHA are higher than 12 or 13. If someone is dying, I really would not imagine them refusing to ask someone because they do not look nice.

[Layem]

It's not logical if someone is DESPERATE. If something is wrong, such as someone is sick and is in need of a cure quickly or they will die, I doubt they would just shrug you off and wait for another to come by despite if you looked frumpy frilly butt... not good.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=desperate

[Telk]

CHA isn't necessarily how willingly you are or not to do a thing.

If my friend was dying from a rare poison and someone came along I wouldn't just pass him up because he is too ugly to help me cure my dying friend or he is a little rude to me.

[Glim]

I agree (dont ask me with who), cha isnt necessarily how competent you look. It is your appeal and aura, but people look for other traits when they really want help. If I wanted my ring saved from a giant, I would rather go with the big strong ugly as an ogre guy than the small, puny, yet handsome guy.

*puts his 2 pennies into the change jar*

[Aran]

I think the requirements should be mostly left up to the quest designers. They have a certain vision for how a quest should go, and although the requirements should be logical, they can be strained however the designer sees fit. For example a person might not ask for help from a "grumpy, buttface" because they have too much pride, or are haughty in general.

Take it or leave it. There aren't enough good requirements on most quests as is, so I applaud anyone who tries to make their quests selective right now

[Telk]

For example a person might not ask for help from a "grumpy, buttface" because they have too much pride, or are haughty in general.

Hence why I think only -some- quests should be used doing this. In general some of the quests asking for desperate help.

[Kregor]

Granted Aran, I agree as far as the quest designers' intent. Although, I believe what is the issue with some of the people is stat checks being put on quest areas, some of which do, arguably, seem to make little sense for a high CHA requirement.

BUT... On the one hand, I see the reason for the stat mins the admins have chosen. It is not necessarily to make sense, it is to penalize players who min/max. Sadly, CHA is one of the stats that gets the chopping block in order to pump up other stats.

Face it, abilities like STR, DEX, and INT are not going too be chosen if discouraging min/maxing is the goal. Wizards are going to pump up their INT CON and DEX, fighters are going to pump up their STR, CON, and DEX. And really, everyone who wants to powergame is going to pump on INT, no matter what the class, because the skill-based system on the MUD allows you to powerlevel quicker if your INT is high. Doesn't really matter whether the person is intelligent in RP or not.

So, the biggest hit is in CHA, and honestly, there has been no real motivation in MUD code to have a high CHA at all. Physically, you aren't even prevented from giving yourself a description that implies you're gorgeous, even if you backed down your CHA to 3. Thus the stat checks on CHA... because there had to be SOMEway to make people feel a hit for short changing the stat.

On the other hand... 10-12 is considered average in the 3-18 scheme that D&D (and the MUD) is built on. EDIT: Apparently a higher CHA is considered "average" in FK, as evidenced by my own twiddling in the char gen. Regardless, if CHA is rated at "average", then there should be no restriction from a general purpose quest, perhaps the lockout is only at "offensive" or lower? I do not know, I've never played an ugly PC and stripped down my CHA.

Also, if we are going to restrict quests based on stats, I think it would more IC and also fair, if a char were told why the quest were refused to them. Much like with some of the guilds, where you are told "Sorry, you cannot join because of X." It gives the char options to spend their future stat points on, and it makes much more logical sense, than to arrive at a quest site, and be told that "We need help!", and furthermore, being told when trying to train or buy from anyone in the area to "Please help us first," and never being given the chance to help, or even a why not. Even something simple as "Sorry, but you look too stupid to help us on this task." or "Sorry, but you do not look impressive or commanding enough for me to believe you could help us." is better than it just looking like "Hmmm, it looks like there should be a quest here, I guess it's bugged out."

I also think we should find someway to enforce the drawbacks for low scores... if there was a way to permanently tag UGLY onto a char's adjective with a low CHA score it would be great. As it is, all a player has to do is change their adjective, and the ugly is gone.

Perhaps it's time to reexamine the adjective system, limiting it to a word or two, which are merely added onto the coded adjectives. (ie, picking "ginger-haired" in the "adj" command, would result in "a ginger-haired, tall, ugly female human". That gives us both worlds, a little unique touch, but also the coded truth.

[Hviti]

Also, if we are going to restrict quests based on stats, I think it would more IC and also fair, if a char were told why the quest were refused to them.

I think at least one quest (from the competition) had the initiating mob say "You are not wise/smart enough" if you didn't meet the requirements. Not sure how it is for other quests.

[Hviti]

The guy who doesn't-know-the-first-thing-about-tabletop in me wants to ask a question.

What is considered a 'high' or an 'average' level of a stat? Is 10 or 12 such? And what do the various levels of FK stats (strong/powerful/titanic, limber/nimble/acrobatic) correspond to in number terms?

[Elwin]

10-12 is average for a human as 10 is the base starting point for any human. As far as the words in FK, I do not remember off the top of my head what is what.