Alignment

Tazmin · Post by **Tazmin** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:27 am

Now that I am over my FK burnout and am back to playing again I was curious if we allow alignment shifts here. I took that thing Mystra put in the polls section and Tazmin turned out N/G. Changed as she got older I guess. =)

The main problem I have is with my main wizard char. She is true neutral, and tested as such on that fun little quiz, but I am wondering if she is drifting into N/E. Is extreme apathy neutral or evil?

The questions such as. Would you betray your king/ruler for money? (Yes.)
Would you help defend your comunity in an attack? (No)
Would you betray your friends? (I don't have any. =p)
Would you lead your communeity? (No, politics means nothing.)

She has no focus. She cares about nothing, unless she gets something out of it. She will help the poor, as long as they don't annoy her. If they annoy her she makes their lives even more unpleasent. She will keep her word even if it kills her though, which is why she will almost never give it.

She does not do the bad things because they are bad. If people have good things happen to them because of what she does, well then peachy keen for them. If they suffer excessive misery because she accidently set fire to there apple orchard so what? She just doesen't care.

So is my poor wizard lost to the dark side or is she still neutral?

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:48 am

It has always been my belief that this is a neutral attitude, because I also have a TN character that acts like this.

Remember that you can't stake everything about your character on a 20-some-odd question quiz. Characters are more deep than that.

Quizzes will be wrong sometimes.

But I RP my character with the "For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction" theory in mind. For example, helping somebody would require a reward. If there are too many people doing good, somebody should do evil(And it could be her), and vice versa. But if you only care about yourself, then you are not being selfless and "good", nor are you being malicious and "evil", and so you are well balanced.

Concerning law, she does not obey its spirit or letter, like a lawful person, but she does not outwardly(Or inwardly) reject or go against it like a chaotic person. She is indifferent towards it. If her actions and the law agree, then goodie goodie gumdrops. But if she needs to get something done and the law won't allow it, tough cookies, she's doing it anyway.

I hope this helped!

Before I go, I shall leave you with the words of Lao Tzu,

That which shrinks
Must first expand.
That which fails
Must first be strong.
That which is cast down
Must first be raised.
Before receiving
There must be giving.

Believe in the balance, my friend! There are two sides of a coin, but it can always land on its edge!

Gantar · Post by **Gantar** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:20 pm

On my first character I made it was thief and it was lawful good. Then I started trying to steal from evil place because that is what good thieves do. and I was wondering if that is what made me go to chaotic evil. I just tried to use my thief skills and it turned me evil. so I am a bit confussed

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:44 am

Actually, I have seen more than my share of "good" thieves. They will say "Well, I only steal from evil people." But what most of them really meant is "I'll only steal from evil PCs, and mobs too." Most mobs are neutral, possibly even good in a good aligned town. Stealing from them is definitely going to affect someone's hidden align. These poor schlub mob merchants ICly have families to feed, etc. Stealing from them is as self-centered and "evil" as stealing from a PC priest of Ilmater. And if your thief was Lawful Good, it would be totally OOC for him to steal from anyone. The lawful part in that alignment means you respect and obey the laws, even try to champion them. Stealing is a blatant disregard for the law, and would go way against that align.

Honestly, there's nothing that says any good thief has to steal... at all. There are many other uses and trades for a good aligned rogue to ply, to say it is "expected" for a thief to steal is just an excuse for "I want to steal."

It has been said, and shown, on these boards before. The imms keep a real time log of every thiefly act a thief char does, steal, backstab, etc. And the imms could, at any point, decide after looking at a char's rap sheet to shift their align. As I understand, it is not something the game automatically does, the imms have to change your visible align, so if it changes on your score sheet to an evil align, chances are, the imms have the logs to back it up.

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:42 pm

Lawful neutral is a alignmment that will obey all laws no matter what. Stealing is certainly against the law and is a chaotic action.

Lawful neutral isn't a "Good" alignment either just a neutral who obeys the law.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:07 am

Telk wrote:Lawful neutral is a alignmment that will obey all laws no matter what. Stealing is certainly against the law and is a chaotic action.

Lawful neutral isn't a "Good" alignment either just a neutral who obeys the law.

That's an old (and partly different) debate, but I thought I would mention it here. In my opinion, lawful does not mean "will obey laws", and there are several archetypes that confirm that this interpretation is not consistent.

(1) Lawful good paladin. If lawful meant "will obey laws", that would mean that, as soon as (s)he sets foot in Zhentil Keep, the paladin would have to obey the Lords there, attack all good-aligned priests, and so on. It does not make much sense. Relating lawful to laws would mean that a character's alignment changes as he moves from city to city.

(2) Lawful evil assassins. LE is the typical alignment for assassins: they follow their rules, and always complete contracts. That's what makes them lawful... They certainly don't follow laws (as, in most cities, murder is outlawed).

I'd rather say that lawful means : you follow the rules that you set for yourself, the rules you promised to follow; you are generally orderly and like things that are well planned; you think that hierarchical structures and order are necessary to achieve greater goals. For example, I can see a rogue loyal to his/her friends/group/adventuring party, who would not lie about treasure found, who likes to establish precise marching order and plans before attacking/exploring, and who has the greater good as a good, being lawful good in alignment, even though he would not give that much though about the local laws.

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:18 am

I was always under the impression lawful neutral alignments obeyed all laws, from WD to ZK. Now however lawful good would only obey good laws and lawful evil would only obey evil laws. Of course I am generalizing this and there could always be exceptions.

However, that is how I have always seen it.

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:27 am

Is there anyway to change alignment? Maybe a character had an ephany of sorts and decided that being evil was not who he was. If this was in another topic forum, I apoligize.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:49 am

In help kismet costs, alignment changes is listed as 100 kismet.
I have a question though... can a God change alignment without the application/kismet cost when the character's change in perspective is roleplayed excessively over a period of time?

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:16 am

If you want to change your alignment, you have to apply and pay for it with the kismet. However, on some occasions gods will witness a character trying to use one alignment for whatever reason, but behaving a completely different alignment and will change their alignment. A good example of that is people trying to hide behind a CN aligment while behaving CE. ^^ Part of applying for the change is so imms watch and see that the rp is correct to change. I do not think they will watch and change without the application.

Danica

Akela · Post by **Akela** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:31 am

Thank you to those of you who replied and Mystra.

Alignment

Alignment and Alignment drift.

Alignment Changes