Low Income Housing

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Balek
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Low Income Housing

Post by Balek » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:32 pm

As things stand right now, player houses are few and far between. The problem, as I see it, is that making player houses takes up a fairly large amount of time and the benefit for the player community as a whole is small.

What I propose is an alternative to the current house building system. What this would entail is the creation of quite a few 'cookie cutter' rooms in hometown cities. These would either be branches off of existing inns or townhouse style rooms branching off of streets. The townhouse style homes would all have the same room description and the inn rooms would all have the same description. All the rooms have lockable doors that are open and unlocked by default. The rooms are also designated as storerooms, so their contents are saved.

The actual use of these rooms would be as follows. First, a player must find an unused home or room. They enter the room and enter a command like 'rent' or 'claim' (these might not be the best options for commands since 'claim' is already used in the game and I think 'rent' is a command used in other muds for some kind of save/quit combo). Upon entering this command, they are told what the price for the room is (probably around 2 platinum per RL month for an inn room, since a RL month is an IC year and 3 copper/night for a year is a little more than 2 platinum). They either agree or disagree about renting the room. If they agree, the price for the first month's rent is taken from their bank account and a key for the door is put in their inventory. The room is now 'theirs' as long as there is enough money in their account to keep paying for it. They can leave items there and they will be saved. They could buy furniture, chests, armor stands and weapon racks to keep in the room.

There are a couple issues I could forsee arising with this system in place. First is the problem that there might be a huge rush on housing. In other words, these rooms come into the game and suddenly everyone who plays logs every one of their alts and buys a room. To help balance that urge, I think there should be a minimum amount of kismet, a minimum level, and a minimum number of hours on a character before that character can get a home. This prevents totally new players who may not stay with the game from snatching up housing and it prevents rarely played characters from snatching up housing.

Secondly, what happens if someone buys a house and never returns to use it? The first problem with this is that someone might rent a room, put things in it, then run out of money in the bank. My feeling on the matter is that if someone can't manage to keep 2 platinum in the bank to pay for their home, they shouldn't have the home. In this situation the room reverts to its unowned state and any items that were inside are lost (sold to cover unpaid rent). The second problem arising from this is that someone might rent a room and have loads of money in the bank, but still never come back to use the room, depriving active players of the opportunity to use it. There's no easy solution for this, but the best thing I can think of is using some kind of modification of the 'finger' command. The game already keeps track of the last time a character was logged on, so by using some sort of modification of this, it might be possible to create a command whereby a player could stand outside the room (let's say for this example that they're west of the room) and use a command like, 'status east'. This would check if the character renting the room to the east has logged on within the last 6 RL months. If they have not, the game keeps a notice for them so that the next time they log on they are asked if they wish to keep their room. This notice stays in the system for one month's time, after which the room reverts to its unowned state. Items inside the room are purged (donated to charity due to the 7 IC year absence of the room's owner).

This is all just an idea I had today and I haven't given it a terribly large amount of thought, so if you see any flaws or have ideas for tweaking the system, please comment. Some of the solutions and systems I mentioned here are not ideal and could probably benefit from additional perspectives. Furthermore, this whole thing may or may not even be feasible, so comment on that too ;-) .
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Post by Glim » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:46 pm

Hmm, I like this idea.

The main thing I agree with you is that after the first day or first couple of days that this would be added, there would be no available housing. Just to maybe cut this down, perhaps the price could be raised to say, 10 platinum a RL month? Thats still not much but it can eat away your bank account if your not actually logging on to earn rent.

Another thing, ide say would be a good idea would be to make them renew their "lease" every month. This would require that they log on at least once per month and pay the platinum fee. Those who dont log on that often, the landlord would put his house back on the market.

Just wondering, for the storeroom. Junking would be kinda harsh, could there perhaps be a seperate store room in WD, easily accessable for everyone, where the items would be dumped into if the house was made available again?
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Post by Dalvyn » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:53 pm

A few comments, haven't thought it about it much.

(1) Good idea/system overall, since it would open up storing rooms to more people and apparently require less work (most of it would be automatized).

(2) Currently, making a dwelling is a midly complex process requiring to edit a file while the mud is down, setting who owns what room in that file, and so on, so - as far as I know - your idea couldn't be applied without a major code overhaul.

(3) It is kind of hard to make your computation align with the prices that were set for the dwelling system. I don't have the precise figures here but if I remember well, it's some 500 platinum per room (even the rooms that are there "just as decorations") PLUS a montly fee for reparations and so on. I must admit that your computation for 3 copper/night -> 2 plat/year shows how inconsistent the 500 plat per room price is; but I know some characters who worked hard at trying to reach the incredible amount of money they needed for their dwelling and it would be a bad move to just say "Hey, now, you can get the same advantages for 1000 times cheaper."
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Post by Glim » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:58 pm

Hmm, mainly Dalvyn, concerning C. I would say it would make sense. My stepdad is a carpenter and we rent out houses to people. Ide say the price should be increased a little monthly, but overall itd be like the difference between renting an apartment and building your own house. There are huge price differences there and when building your own house (on and off the mud) you can customize it to however you like, but the cost is like 1000 times higher. Some people can pay the extra money to build their own house, others can rent an apartment for much lower.
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Balek
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Post by Balek » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:54 pm

Dalvyn wrote:(2) Currently, making a dwelling is a midly complex process requiring to edit a file while the mud is down, setting who owns what room in that file, and so on, so - as far as I know - your idea couldn't be applied without a major code overhaul.
Would it work to set it up so that the room isn't actually designated as belonging to anyone, but rather is essentially a public storage room that only one person has a key to? Maybe set a flag on the character designating the character as a dwelling owner so that he or she can't rent another place and add a field to the character file to record the vnum of the room they're renting. The flag would probably be necessary anyway to prevent people from owning multiple dwellings.

On another note, losing a key and then needing a new one might be a problem. Maybe with the new field in the player file, the character could go to a mob like the Real Estate mob in Waterdeep, hand over 15 plat or so and get a new key created automatically.
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Post by Jharthyne » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:36 am

I don't know how the dwellings hard code is like, but maybe all these "houses for rent" could be put in the dwellings file as belonging to Mystra? Just that they are individual rooms with keys that can be bought from mobs so that others can access (aka rent) them. This should mean that whatever is left in the rooms will be saved.
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Post by Kirkus » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:36 am

Just some thoughts on this.

First I love the idea. Here is was I think. Low income housing dosn't insult those of us that choose to put in the effort to buy a dwelling. Here is why I feel that way. With dwellings you are paying for the customization, the up keep, and so on and so fourth. But with a rented room you are only paying rent, which would cover all expenses. Like if your renting a room at an inn, it's the innkeepers job to fix the leaking roof and keep out thieves.

As to the problem with running out of space here is an idea. One benefit was that they would be cookie cutter rooms. All we have to do is make one description for every inn. Give each inn a decent ammount of rooms to rent and we shouldn't have to worry about running out of rooms.

My last thought was on the issue of items lost when people don't pay for the room for the next month/ time period. I was thinking all of these items could be put for sale at the auction house. This would keep items in circulation.
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Compromise

Post by Aversa » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:52 pm

I would like to suggest another option - is there a way to create standardized, very simple dwellings for less than the 1000 platinum it currently costs? Maybe 250 platinum for a two-room house with no customization or expansion options? A few of these could be sprinkled about in each of the cities like the vacant shops.

Speaking of which - there seem to be a bunch of vacant shops that never get occupied. Are the prices just too high? Maybe there should be an auction for these, just to get them occupied. One of the motivators for wandering around the cities is to see what's new and getting someone into these spaces would liven things up. And the auction would be fun.
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Post by Kregor » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:10 am

Just my 2 copper.

IF standard, lower cost rooms could/would be coded, I can see the pitfalls that would accompany to make it worth less to pay for:

1) No hirelings: You gotta upkeep it yourself

2) can't hire guards (read: in exchange for having a place that items wouldn't go POOF at reboot, you move in at your OWN risk)

3) NO customization: Mentioned above. The only way to customize it would be your personal effects. You can already buy beds, chests, and other furniture in places in the realms, just need someplace to put it that doesn't go poof.

4) No shop: If you want to sell with a shopkeeper, you'll have to get a custom dwelling. This would simply be a storeroom that could be furnished with stock furniture.

If there were a way to automate the simple housing process, it would allow for more flexibility in that matter.

As I see, such a system would have to:

a. Read strikes
b. Read kismet
c. Evict the character after a reasonable finger time. Six months, perhaps? Even just a simple logon could reset the clock.

So that the imms could still have it built in to reward long term players, but not problem players. And also keep someone from buying the room, and then dropping off the face of the earth forever occupying the room so noone else could.

There could easily be a standard housing room built off of the top floor of various inns in the kingdoms, above shops (where many city dwellers lived) and using the un-rentable rooms in the Drunk (which is about half of them, I think. You can only rent one of each class room.) For nature lovers, there are places vacant cabins, treehouses, etc. could be. This all would make for... I'd venture a couple hundred rooms about the realms?

I have seen housing snippets for Smaug-based MUDs (of which this is) that may or may not offer the type of system that would be a happy medium between buying a key at the lucky drunk, or having a fully customized dwelling. Whether any of these would be suitable or not, I do not know. Perhaps the coding effort of such a system would dramatically alleviate the load of the housing builders going forward.
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