Stealing from containers

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:28 am

A new kind of stealing:

steal <item> <container>

This would allow you to take something from a container, be it in your inv or on the ground in the room, without it being visible to the entire room. It would check against everyone's spot (or whatever it checks against for pickpocket). If you fail at this, you dont get the item, and if you were hiding you become visible, everyone in the room can see if you fail it with an echo like:

You catch <someone's> trying to steal from <item>!

Thought this might make people watch over their containers a bit better and allow thieves to make more of a living.

Edit: Alright, sorry, just to make things clear, this is not meant to be a way to steal items out of containers held in a PCs inventory or worn by them. This is merely to either get an item out of a container yourself without anyone noticing or steal an item out of a container upon the ground without anyone noticing.

Feedback is always welcome,

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:53 am

I really like the idea. I would think it would be great to be able to take something from a merchants cart or a players cart while they were not looking.

Keltorn · Post by **Keltorn** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:38 pm

When I made a rogue, I thought you could already do this. I kept trying, but nothing. This is definately a skill that should be in the game.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:37 pm

If this were possible, I would say it could only apply to containers you can already code-wise see into. As wearing a container with items in it is currently the only way you *can* guarantee your belongings to be safe from stealing. Take that away, allowing thieves to take coins out of work pouches, coin purses, packs, etc, and the only person it will ever be any fun for is the thief who wants to steal. Just because chars are more cautious now and keep their items in their containers and worn, doesn't make it unfair for you as a thief, it just means they are smart about their possessions.

As far as allowing thieves to make a living, that's a non-justification. There are plenty of mobs with items to filch for thives who want to be larcenous, and since the lifting of the nice RP restrictions on stealing in Waterdeep, there are plenty of potential targets to steal what can already be stolen. And knowing, personally, of the over-1000-plat balances of some thief chars, I don't think making a living is in question.

Personally, I think we already have enough issues of abuse of the thieving codes not to add more by expanding the ability to steal: People stealing and logging off; items getting stolen at a PC auction, right out of an auctioneer's hands when there is no IC way that an item being actively shown off and descibed to a crowd could have beeen stolen; stealing entire continaers with no consideration that a target would notice loosing 100 pounds of stuff; stealing items and immediately selling them off.... We don't need to add more worms into the can, and more emails in the complaints mailbox.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:41 pm

Actually, I wasnt referring to being able to steal out of containers in PCs inventory. Merely containers in your own (to hide you getting out a certain item) or containers on the ground. I realise I didnt make that clear, sorry.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:30 am

It seems like a cool idea...at least for thieves...but I think it would discourage the multiple PC merchants out there who keep carts since they can't possibly carry their inventory with them. Since these PC merchants provide much RP one cannot get when one buys from a mob, I do not think they should be penalized by being made easy targets for thievery.

Keltorn · Post by **Keltorn** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:47 pm

Glim wrote:Actually, I wasnt referring to being able to steal out of containers in PCs inventory. Merely containers in your own (to hide you getting out a certain item) or containers on the ground.

Yeah, that's something I was wondering about too. After all, if you're a decent thief, you're not going to let everyone see you pulling out your dagger. It should be possible to quietly draw your blade, like the sleight of hand checks in D&D.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:23 am

Hviti wrote:It seems like a cool idea...at least for thieves...but I think it would discourage the multiple PC merchants out there who keep carts since they can't possibly carry their inventory with them. Since these PC merchants provide much RP one cannot get when one buys from a mob, I do not think they should be penalized by being made easy targets for thievery.

Well, im not sure about this. But I can merely say, arent all merchants supposed to be easy targets for thievery? Its why higher end merchants hire guards and why they must constantly keep inventory because thievery does happen.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:56 am

Yeah, but guards aren't coded to catch thieves and bought items aren't coded to multiply a couple of times to compensate for thievery. Also, merchants often deal in rare, quest, or one of a kind items...which thieves can easily make off with but merchants can't easily replace.

Levine · Post by **Levine** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:14 pm

Pretty cool idea.. The problem is, how would the thief look into the containers that they might be intending to steal from?

Perhaps an addition to the "look" skill for thieves?

look <container> <person holding container>

or simply

look <container>

Another problem.. if the syntax, as suggested by Glim, is: steal <item> <container>, then if a thief wishes to steal platinum coins from a pouch (for example), and many other PC's in the room has platinum coins in the same type of pouch, how would the thief's player know whose and which container he/she is stealing from?

So perhaps the syntax should be a little more detailed, just to avoid confusion or anything..

steal <item> <container> <person holding container>

Then what about the containers being on the ground? Who would catch the thief if the steal fails?

Hope I didn't confuse anyone, or create a problem out of nothing..

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:42 am

Glim wrote:Actually, I wasnt referring to being able to steal out of containers in PCs inventory. Merely containers in your own (to hide you getting out a certain item) or containers on the ground. I realise I didnt make that clear, sorry.

I don't think he meant that people could steal out of containers others were holding as in...

Levine wrote:look <container> <person holding container>

but rather a skill to steal out of containers on the ground (bags/merchant carts) or in one's own inventory (getting a dagger out without an echo).

Couldn't people spam steal from themselves without any problems of being caught to twink the skill if they could 'steal' out of their own containers? Perhaps getting things out of one's own containers without echos could be a separate skill from steal or a feat for thieves to prevent that?

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:29 am

Hviti wrote:Couldn't people spam steal from themselves without any problems of being caught to twink the skill if they could 'steal' out of their own containers? Perhaps getting things out of one's own containers without echos could be a separate skill from steal or a feat for thieves to prevent that?

Every time the steal command is typed and entered, it puts a log entry, no matter who or what you steal from. Consider the posted example of abusing the steal code in another post. The people whom it counts to see you spamming steal, can see it.

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:55 pm

I think stealing from containers is an all around bad idea. The steal skill is already abused enough. Adding the ability for PCs to steal from containers that other PCs are holding/wearing will only make the problem worse. I can definitely see the theft of quest/faith/renamed items increasing, which would probably result in a huge amount of complaints. I know I would certainly be mad if I were alert and actively engaged in RP and someone just came and lifted something out of my pack or pouches.

I'm not going to digress into all the bad RP I've seen or dealt with OOCly (via player complaints over Question) regarding thieves and stealing. I think thieves need to be a bit more alert and "shifty eyed" to keep a better eye out for their marks and what goods they might want to steal. Perhaps work in teams to distract a target and make off with something then split the profit (or backstab each other as RP might turn out) later.

Palming an item (which is what I think Glim originally meant) is a good idea and I think there was already another thread for that topic: http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... ng&start=0

However, that thread is locked, so I don't have any idea on whether or not a Sleight of Hand skill might be employed on FK or not. I think it could be a good skill for rogues to be able to palm their own dagger (nothing larger than 3 pounds) out of a sheath or palm a small magic item (i.e. ring or potion) out of their own pouch/pack etc or quietly slip a small item to another PC.

Alaudrien · Post by **Alaudrien** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:25 pm

I kinda like the idea but am against it for the fact some people who paly thieves abuses it. Althought it would be perfectly natural for a cutpurse to be able to use his ring with a tiny blade to cut into the bottom of a money pouch or the strings to remove it completely. Just when all these people steal and run away and then log off really fast it just ruins being a thief for all of us thieves. I have stolen from friends and then grinned and taunted them with it but rarely in the past. Some friends would sooner take my head! haha I'm totally with Kregor on this one. Until us thieves shape up and ship out and not abuse thieving this type of stealing I think should be beyond us ^^

Stealing from containers

Stealing from containers

RE: Stealing From Containers