New Faith Commands

[Dugald]

Agreed, regions and cultures and races have an affinity or even predisposition for a certain /primary/ deity. But that isn't nearly what "faithed" is in the game. It's something exceedingly unusual that, for a large part, is never attained by the non dedicated (priests, paladins).

You can have a primary deity, and that more or less (in a normal person in toril sense) represents either your profession or region or race or alignment...often a mixture of them all. It doesnt mean you absolutely refuse to worship others, and in many cases praying fervently to those deities you need...or necessarily hate those who sit on the opposing spectrum. In these cases their primary deities are more what best suits them to living good in that god's eyes without drastically changing their lifestyle they were born in. Becoming "faithed" by it's definition in the game, is a whole new level of dedication.

By Ao's edicts, deities have a responsibility to respond to their worshippers...worshippers doesn't equate to "faithed" as in the game mechanic. All it requires is realizing you're at their mercy, that you need them to truly succeed, general shows of humility and sacrifice to a god. Elves, Dwarves, Gnomish, Orcish, any race's pantheon that isnt the primary pantheon, worship all of their gods...moreso than the primary pantheon, but there is still many god worship among humans and the primary pantheon...just not as equal or obvious.

I'm not exactly sure why they structured it that way in FR, I have a gut feeling it's a stereotype of our abrahamic monotheistic dominance in our world...having the other races worshipping more equally among their pantheon I think was to distinguish them apart from Humans culturally.

The unfaithed is a pride issue. It isn't that they don't believe they exist, or that they feel none will help them - it's that they refuse to admit they need help, or truly believe they are good enough without divine will. Karsus' folly was a pride issue. The greatest virtue, and greatest sin, are the same for all the gods of every pantheon - obedience/pride. Which means when talking about the unfaithed in Kelemvor's judgement, is different than the agnostic rating that is a mechanic in the game. You can be humble to many gods, all at once, equally - that is being in faith....you're probably best staying in one pantheon though.

[Jedan]

On that note though, PC's in FK are not "normal" people. They're adventurers, championing the causes of the Gods and slaying mighty monsters and all that.

You could argue that you wouldn't necessairly be immediately identifiable as such, but Joe Bob the farmer who is just in Waterdeep to sell his turnips is probably not going to be walking around in a suit of armour (even the plain ones from the Temple) with a longsword strapped to his hip, or with his face buried in a spellbook.

And you won't find too many adventurers who haven't taken a patron God, after all, never know when a bit of divine intervention will be handy when raiding an Orc encampment, or when that dragon might take your head off and you find yourself on the Fugue Plane trying to figure out which deity you have annoyed the least lately.

But that said, I don't think anyone has claimed there is anything wrong with praying (in terms of smotes, not the actual command) to other deities whose portfolio might more directly apply to your situation, even if you are faithed. It's just recognized that you are primarily dedicated to serving the tenets of your patron.

As far as opposing deities, while you average lay worshipper of Lathander might not immediately strap on a suit of armour and starting hacking at some random Sharran he encounters, that doesn't mean that they casually mingle with deities who are mortally opposed to their own favoured deity. It's just more so for "faithed" people.

[Dugald]

Adventurers worship Tymora like farmers worship Chauntea - adventurers aren't any more likely to be dedicate themselves solely to one god as normal folk. At least, that's the way I've always seen it.

[Leohand]

In terms of being a faith enquirer, yes, I agree that you should have free scope to drop and change at will. From anything above here, with increasing levels of severity, dropping yourself out of a faith should be an action to be considered very carefully.

A problem with a universal 'drop faith' command is that it is a blanket effect that, while suitable to some faiths, may not be to others. For instance imagine you had pledged yourself to Cyric as a hopeful. This means ICly going to a player or a faith NPC to apply, which in turn means that your intention is known to the clergy. Suppose you then decided wanton murder wasn't for you, and decided to trot off and follow Ilmater instead. Do you suppose Cyric's faithfuls are going to like this? In all probability, you would find yourself actively disliked, and not so much ignored as impaled.

Another thing to consider is that pledging yourself to a deity is more than simply attending church. In all actuality the majority of people in the realms wouldn't be faithed in the sense that we're talking. Sailors will pay lipservice to Umberlee, but they will likely also pray to Tymora (Or even Beshaba) if the tides turn. This doesn't make them a faithful, however. Faithfuls are above the general church goers, hence the fact that you can only follow one deity. Dropping out of a faith isn't like neglecting to attend church - It's like kicking your god's puppy and ridiculing their godmother and then running off into the night.

I think what it boils down to is the necessity to think your faith applying through carefully before doing so. By all means if you're willing to accept the IC implications of renouncing a deity, send an application for it and play away, but otherwise tread carefully. These are real deities with real wraths

You make a disturbing point here. If my cleric does the Arch-Bishops quest, which includes visiting the church of Cyric and getting information about it, would they be angry if he later joined Ilmater? Actually, I plan to have him join Lathander's people, and aside from doing as the arch-bishop suggested he wouldn't go near cyrics people.

[Lerytha]

Leohand, faith enquire is a separate command that involves you letting the faith managers of a church know that you are considering joining their Church, and want to learn more about it before you make a final decision.

The quest you speak of is completely separate from that process.

Of course, ICly, your character might decide that even approaching a priest of Cyric is bad. But you would most definitely not be penalised for doing a quest.

What Lathlain was addressing, is a hypothetical instance where people "faith enquire" about Cyric, learning about his faith (with intent to follow), and then discovers it is not for him (legitimate enough), but then doesn't join a similar Church (Talos, for instance). Instead, he goes and "faith enquires" about Ilmater.

At least that's my reading of it. Don't panic.

[Leohand]

Adventurers worship Tymora like farmers worship Chauntea - adventurers aren't any more likely to be dedicate themselves solely to one god as normal folk. At least, that's the way I've always seen it.

If you think about it, all the main characters in the Drizzt books are faithed except Catie-bree.

Wulfgar's primary deity is Tempus.
Drazzt's primary deity is Mielekki.
Bruenor's deity is 'The Keeper of Secrets Under the Mountain.'
Regis.... Well, I don't know about Regis, but I imagine he has a faith too and doesn't talk about it.

And, is it just me, or in the later books does it seem like even Catie-bree is becoming more open to such things?

I mean, Drizzt doesn't really have a huge amount of faith, but he lives according to the tenets of Mielekki, and he is favored by her. Granted, he is favored partly because he's a drow, and she likes having such a unique and powerful follower, but that's just my guess.

Actually, despite everything Drizzt has done, he seems to be favored by Lolth as well. How disturbing is that? Well, I for one can't wait for the next Drizzt book.

By the way, the next book in the Sellswords series is coming out soon, next month. I can't wait to read about the further adventures of Jarlaxle Baenre and Artimis Entreri!

[Leohand]

Leohand, faith enquire is a separate command that involves you letting the faith managers of a church know that you are considering joining their Church, and want to learn more about it before you make a final decision.

The quest you speak of is completely separate from that process.

Of course, ICly, your character might decide that even approaching a priest of Cyric is bad. But you would most definitely not be penalised for doing a quest.

What Lathlain was addressing, is a hypothetical instance where people "faith enquire" about Cyric, learning about his faith (with intent to follow), and then discovers it is not for him (legitimate enough), but then doesn't join a similar Church (Talos, for instance). Instead, he goes and "faith enquires" about Ilmater.

At least that's my reading of it. Don't panic.

Whew... That's good. No, he wont join Cyric, no way no how, but I do intend to complete the quest, as long as I'm not penelized

[Layna]

*tuts*

Cyric's followers are wonderful people and anyone who says otherwise will be... silenced *cackles*

Actually I think that Lathlain was saying that changing your mind at the 'faith enquire' point would be alright, but that when you get to 'faith apply' it implies a certain level of commitment as you've pretty much pledged yourself to the church and changing your mind after that might have negative health implications

So in summary - If you're an 'enquirer' it's all fine and dandy to have second thoughts. If you've done 'faith apply' it's really not so wise... so make sure you only use that command if you've *really* thought about it

[Japcil]

There's a such things as someone who doesn't follow Cyric? *grin*

Faith enquire to me doesnt mean you are interested in joining the faith, thats what faith apply is for. Enquire to me goes along with the quest that teach about religion that you will find in temples. Apply is in more of the sense you are prepared to channel your efforts to one main god or goddess While with the others gods you offer small emoted prayers to other gods. (burial of a friend you may pray to Kelemvor to guide them even though you follow Garl). You should have no penalty for enquiring for information about a certain church. Only if you havedevoted yourself and then feel that you wish to devote to another.

In an anti-flamatic voice :
Leohand please read this topic:
http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... le+posting

[Algon]

If someone came up to Kaer and said they might be interested in joining the church and would like to know more. I would give them the guided tour, usually with a whip or flail involved then send them on their way. If I hear back from them great if not no big deal.

Now if someone has said they are joining and wishes to be faithed and made that known to the church and then back out...yes their would be a price to pay for such cowardice.