Racial Recognition

Lukon · Post by **Lukon** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:40 am

Just as a point of curiosity, I wanted to pose this issue to the forum as a whole. Just how likely is Joe Adventurer to recognize the exact race of any given PC or NPC? Now, I'm not saying it's hard to tell a human from a dwarf from an elf, but what about half-elves? Half-orcs? Other mixed breedings may be hard, if not impossible to discern. The unique traits of genasi, tieflings, and aasimar stand as a fine example. Even if their appearance is apparent, will it be apparently add up to that race?

Just food for thought and discussion...though a command to alter/conceal race on adjectives (NOT disguise, that's a little beyond what I mean) would be nice.

Caelyvar · Post by **Caelyvar** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:39 pm

My solution to this little problem is that I do not have my character recognize the race unless they have had previous contact with the race.

For example. . .there are a few Assimir's running around ((look at me staying away from tieflings)) and after my character was friends with one, she knew what to look for.

I just RP it out, not everything takes commands. . .although the sometimes can be useful

~C

Lysha · Post by **Lysha** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:20 pm

It was said before in the half-drow and drow forum that you would not be able to tell the difference between a half-drow from a drow unless you have actually seen a drow. ^_^;;;

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:04 am

To be honest, shouldn't most people who aren't drow just treat drow anything with a bit of distaste and high suspicion? I mean, even if you were evil, it's not like ANYONE is in that deep of a cave not to have heard horror stories about drow. And if some man with dark skin and pointed years is going to come up to ME in a dark forest, I am totally going to swing my mace at him. (That comment was more for Lukon's player who would appreciate that more than most I think. But it's a valid point from a game perspective about notoriously evil races.)

The thing is this for me.
I don't need an adjective hide function to disguise all these different races. Because out of characterly, I had no idea up until like two months ago there was mroe than just two different races of elf. I think it's just pretentious to add a command to disguise these things that if you thinka bout it, you should be able to loop them all together and RP the fact your character has no idea.

FOR EXAMPLE
Mariela has never had someone explain to her about the assamir. So I looked up in the help file what they were.. no problem there. They are angelic looking things, ect. That is something that people ten dto leave out of their descriptions. So if you pay attention, she generally treats the assamir regardless of subtype like angelic creatures. She stares at them, tries to resist asking them if they know the gods personally, ect. (We are talking about the same girl who walked up to the High Knight and asked him if he knew he was tall. This is quite a resistance factor for her!)

I think a lot of times, we depend TOO much on code and not enough on our own intellegence as players to be able to see something and not know instantly in character what it is. If your character is from the backwoods of. oh.. what's a good one, Shadowdale maybe... there are not any NPC drow characters there that I can think of in that town. Which means that they may have heard of them, but seeing one for the first time... Wow. Talk about something you gotta stare at. Same idea with things like tieflings or wicked demon creatures people ride around as pets. Do some forethought to what city your character starts out in.

Just because YOU are familiar with the entire game, does not mean your character would not be wide eyed when they are from the barbarian lands of Silverymoon when they pass by their first dwarf in Waterdeep where all sorts of different races are really common. (It being a huge hub and all.)

Alaudrien · Post by **Alaudrien** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:28 pm

Yo I totally agree on Mariela's point of view. Don't rely on the adjectives and code a whole lot. Stop and read the players descriptions and think has my character ever met/saw/fought with said things. Albeit in regards to half drow...I am curious but wouldn't most figure out if a half drow has facial hair and the dusky greyish black skin. Wouldn't that hint he might be half of something. Just like some tieflings aren't all have goat legs like Pan..some might know what I refer to. Some might just have sharp teeth or horns hidden in there hair. A tail..wings? Odd looking eyes pointed hands. Most would be hinted towards it. Not sure if those of the underdark would have a bit more knowledge of demons and the like. So I play it dumb most of the time unless I am 100% sure my char would know this or that ^^

Gregal · Post by **Gregal** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:40 pm

While we are on this subject, How many times have you been in a room and looked to the east and some others do as well and someone says "HEY look there is a elf!" alright first and foremost a room is miles long...to look to the east which means looking a far way away I doubt you could see their pointy ears...I mean you can say I see a form or something but identify their race from there...I seriously doubt it.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:45 pm

I'll start with the first part of Gregals post. Looking distance.
This varies from what type of room you are in whether its say the market square or the wilderness. In the market it isnt miles but thats a resonable distance for the wilderness, hence the lag when moving rooms.

Second part. Seeing other poeple in a seperate room. Even if it were miles. I can say even though i wear glasses

I could see a few miles on a clear day. And ears arent the only distinguishable feature elves have that others don't. Theres certain skin color and other features like height and just body movements that you could use to distinguish or atleast narrow what race it is from a distance.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:41 pm

Especially on the roads and such. Racial preferences in dress and equipment might help. I will say though that in the tree line you would be lucky to see maybe... fifty meters, sometimes less. So we (this guy included) might be stretching it from time to time..

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:39 pm

I personally hate/love the distance within FK.

The fact that the code lets you look before you leap at times, especially in dungeons helps me double check do I REALLY want to take on the Orge with the cleric all by my lonesome? Is a wyvern really a thing I want to tangle with while I'm rock diving or something.

Just the names of the creatures on the road ahead of me makes me nervous at times as I try to think if I have ever run into that creature and if it went well or badly.

To be honest, I don't mind that you can see into next rooms within the same building, like a dungeon, or even within the cities. I always assumed the scope of the game basically slammed down to personal perspective. You see the next room because it's only a block away.

Out of the cities in the wild, it would be really neat to have that look command taken away if it's reallysupposedt o be 30 miles apart from one another per square. It would give an element of mystery to what are you walking into. The only thing I do not like about it is that it scares new characters into remaining in the cities, rather than try to adventure out gingerly and try to avoid trouble while gaining experiance.

In a fairness perspective, if you are looking and you see a CROWD of people in a square ahead of you. Go in there. Otell someone and ask them if you can walk into the scene. Or watch a minute and Otell the "leader" of the scene. If it's obvious there is a throw down in progress, maybe you should back away quietly and forget that you saw anything at all and giggle to yourself oocly that someone was getting their twinkie's taken away.

It goes back to that whole, fairness and RP versus coding problem. You can't cheat if you take a dose of fair play and a clear idea of what your character would do in a situation with you. Remember, other people LIKE their characters to, and always keep that in mind before rolling up on a beat down with your fire chucking wizard.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:58 pm

Mariela wrote:Out of the cities in the wild, it would be really neat to have that look command taken away if it's reallysupposedt o be 30 miles apart from one another per square. It would give an element of mystery to what are you walking into. The only thing I do not like about it is that it scares new characters into remaining in the cities, rather than try to adventure out gingerly and try to avoid trouble while gaining experiance.

I don't think Mask needs to take the time to re-code the game so that you cant use look in the wilderness. It falls under the "just because the code allows you doesn't mean you should" etho. Just because the code displays the players adj when your 30 miles apart, just rp that you see a figure out in the distance. Simple as that.

Rhytania · Post by **Rhytania** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:59 pm

Seeing for miles:
Just to put things in perspective, with 20/20 vision At 500 meters a six foot silhouete of a man is barely 4.5 inches tall and maybe half a inch wide when looking at a 0 degree incline (i know becuase I have spent many a day using them for target practice at the rifle ranges.) Would you be able to see a man at a mile away sure, would you be able to tell how long his ears are? or the color of his eyes? or even the exact color(a lot of people forget that FR is not solely inhabited by caucasians. In fact most of the regions are a hodgepodge mixture of skin color so a halfdrow and even at a far strecth a drow with the right clothing just might be able to blend in from a distance) of his skin? I seriously doubt it, unless your mile is a bit shorter than mine.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:00 am

Like I said, it's a double edged sword...

It'd be ok if you couldn't but being able to lends to avoiding having to rescue level 10 characters every five minutes. Now we only have to save them from their own exhaustion rather than because they found the one bandit on the road they couldn't get away from.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:41 am

I think this is where sometimes we have to sacrifice realism for gameplay.

Yes, they could be 30 miles away, or they could be 1 mile away (depending on where those persons are standing in their 30 mile grids). It could be said just as easily, that I couldnt see someone in the same room as me in the wilderness, because we could easily be 10 miles from each other in that grid. That would be realistic, yes, but not necessarily conducive to the game.

This might not be how some look at it, but I look at the whole as a grid, with each square being 30 miles across. What if they were on the opposite side, or what if they were flying a mile high, or what if they were a halfling, or what if they were obscured by a tree, or rock, or anything else. Theres just too many what if's that cant be accounted for in a mud environment.

Feedback is always welcome,
Thanks,

Rhytania · Post by **Rhytania** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:50 am

I agree with Glim on this. There are times where we have to suspend reality for the sake of gameplay. Distance is one of those. Unless we got to an xyz coordinate system(which is very very fustrating) id say just rp accordingly but dont forget to leave a little room for courtesy of another player.