Slip

Saiden · Post by **Saiden** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:05 am

I propose a skill that would be the opposite of steal. I've done a search and came up empty, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed. But doing this will create a thread just for those wondering about what everyone has to say on the matter in the future.

Syntax: slip <item> <victem>

If the roll fails, the victem will see: Saiden gives you a leather backpack.
And the rogue would see: You give Bob a leather backpack.
I suggest that these messages be seen, because if the victem notices it's going on, it would appear to him as though Saiden is merely handing the item over.

If the roll succeeds, the item will be placed into the victems inventory (if their carry weight allows) without them knowing a thing. And of course the rogue would see the infamouse: Ok.

I could only imagine the possibilities of framing people with this!

-Saiden

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:16 pm

I could see this skill being used for small items. Slip a ring into a pocket, or a dagger into a pouch. But slipping an entire backpack into someone's inventory would be impossible. Basically it would be up to the thief to make sure he's only using it for small items.

Balek

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Something else that could come from this addition would be an alteration of the steal skill. Currently I believe it's possible to steal anything in a character's inventory.

What if that stays the same, but anything over 3 pounds stolen results in an echo to the character being robbed. Something like, '<CharacterA> grabs <item> from you.' This would allow for larger item theft, but it would make it clear that it was stolen. This is akin to snatching a purse as opposed to picking a wallet from a pocket.

Balek

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:45 am

"Plant" sounds interesting.

I agree with Balek, there should be a limit to the weight of an object that you can steal from another player's inventory. BIG difference between slipping a few coins out of someone's "purse" and snatching a 20 pound backpack!

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:18 am

While I agree that it should be harder to steal larger items, it seems to me that if you're carrying a 20 pound backpack you will always notice if you're suddenly not carrying it anymore.

Balek

Cherishinar · Post by **Cherishinar** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:48 am

Personally stealing a backpack, large bag etc is poor RP. There is no way ICly you would be able to do so unnoticed unless the target was sleeping and even then the sudden loss of 20 weight would likely be noticed. Coin purses, purses and beltpouches should be the IC maximum size container any thief should even attempt to steal from anyone even if it is not coded, the old 'just because you can does not mean you should' applies here. If a thief steals backpacks and such they should at least face reprimands from the IMM staff for poor RP with repeated violations given strikes. And steal is affected by weight from what I have seen/experienced. Another interesting way to handle steal could be to make allowable weight to be tied to the actual steal skill level.

As for the slip command, yes I would like to see a skill like that implemented. Would open interesting roleplay for a smart thief. But it too should be limited through responsible skill use by the player to reasonable weights, if it is abused then it would need to be hardcoded.

And a reminder to thieves who do steal from players, the thief needs to stay online for a good while afterwards to allow the victim a suitable chance to discover the theft and react. And to follow the guidelines in Help Steal

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:23 am

I think stealing a backpack or large item could be RP'd out, but it would take some effort. It would probably involve use of emotes to roleplay walking up and grabbing the item from them (basically letting them know you're stealing). Then...you turn and run (staying online of course to allow a good chase and chance to get the item back).

Of course, if you just randomly steal a backpack or battleaxe without sufficient roleplay, it would be very poor form.

Balek

Saiden · Post by **Saiden** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:35 am

Just so you all know, I was using a backpack as an example.

However, there are many times that a thief will see someone with a container and curiousity will get the best of him. But upon stealing the container, he finds out that its contents has no value to him whatsoever, but could very well have much sentamental value to the victem. Handing the container over would label him a culprit for sure, but if he has the chance to return the item not noticed, he could sleep well at night, knowing that the little fairy princess isn't going to ever know the adventures of her little dolls and trinkets gained over time.

-Saiden

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:14 pm

There is no "however" when it comes to stealing large items. It was covered in the Thieves' Forum hosted by Cyric which I logged and posted on the old discussion board. I'll re-post it here (probably tonight when I get home from work), but for the record, stealing backpacks and other large items is considered to be extremely poor roleplay. I'll echo Cherishinar's statement of "Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should." Same thing for logging off after stealing something or getting caught. This is extremely poor sportsmanship and I fully support the idea of strikes for players who do that.

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:27 pm

You don't think that it's within the realm of acceptable roleplay to blatently let your target know that you're stealing said backpack? It's like a real-life purse snatching. You walk/run up to them, smote grabbing the item, and then start the chase.

Balek

Rotha · Post by **Rotha** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:24 am

A skill for rogues, or maybe just thieves, whereby they pick up an object (or get something from a pack.. anything that uses the 'get' or maybe even 'put' or 'drop' command), without echoing a message to the room if they are successful at the skill.

Delamen · Post by **Delamen** » Wed May 19, 2004 3:49 am

Not sure where the thread is, but there is a skill in D&D that functions pretty much the same way. Sleight of Hand. It may have come up under that name, if that helps track it down.

Delamen

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Wed May 19, 2004 7:40 am

I found these two that might help:

http://pub205.ezboard.com/fforgottenkin ... ID=3.topic

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... .php?t=966

Rotha · Post by **Rotha** » Wed May 19, 2004 2:13 pm

Saiden wrote: If the roll fails, the victem will see: Saiden gives you a leather backpack.
And the rogue would see: You give Bob a leather backpack.
I suggest that these messages be seen, because if the victem notices it's going on, it would appear to him as though Saiden is merely handing the item over.

Quoting way back from the first post here, but wouldn't someone notice a big difference between you handing them something (essentially extending it to them or offering them it and them taking it) like with the 'give' command, and them finding your hand in their pack/whatever, about to drop an item with the slip command? Maybe the message should clearly state that the person was trying to slip the item in... Just a thought.

OR, there could be different degrees of failure. I might be wrong, but at least in tabletop D&D when you pick pocket, you can fail and your victim might not notice. The same could be applied here, if you fail by just a little bit, it means you do a good job saving your own hide and making it look like you're simply handing it over, and they get the regular 'give' message. If you fail by a lot, it means you're caught with your hand in the pack, and they get a message telling them so.

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Wed May 19, 2004 4:28 pm

I was reading this subject/post thing, and I read the interesting discussion about stealing a backpack... now, this is partly just to put the idea out, though I suppose it must have some credibility. I hope:

In the Mallorean, Belgariad, etc, (by David Eddings) there are constant references to how brilliant a thief a character (Silk) is. Now, I know it has nothing to do with Forgotten Realms, but I am sure that Silk, probably the best thief in that world, would be able to steal a backpack.

Not being a thief myself, I'm not sure how, but if a max levelled thief, who is a great rper, managed to steal a backpack, while smoting/emoting exactly how he did it, I would say it isn't poor RP, just unusual, and nigh impossible.

There are ways to steal backpacks, probably by adding a counterfeit one instead? Knocking them on the floor and performing some sleight of hand (though you'd need a pretty big sleeve). Well, just a thought.

I do agree, however, that stealing a backpack is bad RP for someone who does not RP it out properly.

And as for the original title of the post, I think it is a good idea, the slip skill, as long as no deranged servant of Mask slips anything incriminating into my pocket... if they do, they'll have my wrath to answer to!

Anyway, I hope some of that made some sense... somewhere.

The Wise One smile on you, from Lerytha Holt

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Thu May 20, 2004 9:49 pm

I carry a big purse. HUGE! I'll take pictures and post them to my site if anyone doesn't believe the size of this thing! And it probably weighs close to 20 lbs. if not more!

There is NO way someone could steal my entire purse while I'm holding it without me noticing.

I don't care how well you think you can RP it - unless someone is dead or sleeping, it would be impossible to steal a purse/backpack/bag out of someone's hands (inventory) without them noticing it immediately. Something that size just doesn't wander off on its own.

Stealing money, jewelry or other tiny objects I can understand and support. But not a whole backpack full of stuff. Just because the code might let you do it doesn't mean you should.

Belose · Post by **Belose** » Thu May 20, 2004 10:26 pm

I don't believe it, you must take pictures and show us this bag of holding....

Delamen · Post by **Delamen** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:57 am

You make all good points Andreas. You are exactly right, no thief in the game could steal a purse your holding in your hands. Unfortunatly, the inventory system doesn't really represent what your character is holding in their hands, the left and right hand equipment slots do. I have a character that can have over 20 items in his inventory at once. As for a backpack wandering off on it's own, I like to think of the steal command as more than just reaching out and taking something. I think of it as a misdirection, an opportunity during a moment of distraction, for the thief to make the move on his mark. While juggling those ten items in your inventory, while holding a sword in a shield, I'm sure it'd be quite easy to lose track of one of them, even a backpack.

Delamen

Paxos · Post by **Paxos** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:02 pm

Weight is taken into account by the code. If someone has Adept at Pick Pocket and amazing ability scores, they can usually gank something of a very high weight. Perhaps the weight modifiers need some adjusting, but as an example of such a thing, Andreas, I present to you the magicians Penn and Teller. They can quite literally take watches and belts that people are wearing off of their person without the people knowing.

Penn and Teller are just two semi-mainstream people that do something that a few select people can do in the world today. The point of a character in FK is that you are one of those select people, that's what DnD is. Moving from a commoner to extraordinary Penn and Teller-like person would be involved in Thievery. And if they ever stop by in town, ask them to try to steal a backpack off of your back... I bet they probably could.

Paxos

Timaeus · Post by **Timaeus** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:40 pm

After following this thread I decided to see what the 3rd edition Players Handbook states as it is of little concern to my thief who is often far too drunk to steal anything. Anyway page 72 of the players handbook:

PICK POCKET (Dex;Trained Only;Armor Check Penalty)
You can cut or lift a purse and hide it on your person, palm an unattended object, or perform some feat of legerdemain with an object no larger than a hat or a loaf of bread.

Packs would be larger than a loaf of bread or a hat.

Slip

Slip

RE: Stealing/Planting

Slip

RE: Stealing Large Items

Palm skill

Palm skill

Re: Slip

RE: Stealing Backpacks