New Glory (kismet?) System - OOC item loss, quest resetting

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:58 pm

Hi,

First off, I'm sure the new glory system is going to be excellent, and I'd like to thank whoever made it possible and put the time into doing it. In no way to I mean to belittle the work put into it, and this is only a suggestion for a possible future addition to the system.

I'm fairly sure that over enough time spent playing, it's rather likely that one will lose at least a few items through copyovers, crashes, and the like. Yes, there is a policy about this in the helps. However, sometimes the items lost are pretty difficult if not impossible to replace IC, even though their disappearance was OOC.

Also, I believe that, over a certain amount of time, there are certain quests that seem to just...fail on people. Maybe there's a copyover during one and the mob following you isn't there afterwards. Maybe the keyphrase/keywords just don't seem to work. Whatever it is, there are certain things that just happen.

Now, neither of these are essential in any way. After all, there are hundreds more quests out there and thousands more items. Sometimes other characters will part with their quest items, given the right IC motivation.

However, it would be nice to be able to once in a while revert some of these OOC losses, through application and some sort of fee. Since these are OOC problems, maybe kismet would be a better method of payment for such help than glory, but I thought I might bring this up since the new glory system is coming in.

This is neither urgent nor essential; it's simply something that I think might add a bit to the enjoyment of those who've been stymied by quirky code once in a while. I'd like to reiterate that I'm happy that new areas and systems are coming in and this is just a suggestion.

Thoughts?

Alaudrien · Post by **Alaudrien** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:01 am

I kinad like this idea. Playing some of the exotic races that can't go everywhere others can..and do quest there is a thing and some of the few I can do have bugged on me and made me sad. It would be a cool way to spend kismet!

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:23 am

Frankly, I don't see the reason for spending anything on it. If it's OOC and NOT your fault, then I don't see why you should have to pay anything to get it reset. The only thing that hinders this is the workload of the IMMs which is a valid point, but I'd say that if you have a legitimate OOC failure, you should be able to send in an app and have it reset whenever someone has the time to do so. Does that mean you may have to wait a long time? Probably. But hey, there are other quests to do while you are waiting.

The only thing I suppose I understand is that what I suggest can be left open for abuse, and I'm not real sure what to do about that, but I think (correct em if I'm wrong) the player base is becoming much more honest than it was a couple years ago, so I don't think this would be TOO much of a problem. But I can understand not wanting to make it an option. There's my thoughts.

Aldren · Post by **Aldren** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:52 am

Going through my quest log, I have 14 incomplete quests due to crashes destroying vital quest items, bugs in the way the quests being done, and other miscellaneous items OOCly. None of those 14 quests were IC mistakes.
However, I DO RP them ICly where OOC took from me the ability to complete them and get the phat reward at the end.
I have not once sent in an application to get any of these 14 quests reset.
Why?
I would rather the IMMs spend time furthering the ENTIRE game and base of players other than myself.
I don't care about the glory, or the rewards, I care about the RP.
And, everything IC aside, it's just a game. It adds a depth of character to me. Why did I fail the quest at <insert location>? Ask me ICly, I've come up with something each time for each quest for each bug that's come along.
I would not speak against the idea of using glory for fixing bugs, but regardless it should be done at a leisurely pace for IMMs, in between fixing everyone as a whole's problem and furthering RP for the entire game.
Cheers.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:11 am

OOC quest failures are a thing of the past. The rule used to be that you have to roleplay your OOC failure, but I do not agree with it (and since I can change it, I do change it). If you fail a quest for an OOC reason, then you can simply mail builders@forgottenkingdoms.com and describe the situation as precisely as possible.

Now, the important part here is "OOC failure".

ICly failed quests will remain failed though.

For example, if you were given a message to deliver and you (voluntarily or not) cook and destroy it, the quest is failed ICly. You brought the message too close to the fire and destroyed it. The quest is ICly failed and the failure is part of your character's history.

For example, if you were asked to rescue a mob from an attacker and that attacker stuns you with a spell and thus you do not manage to rescue the mob... the quest is ICly failed and the failure is part of your character's history.

If, on the other hand, you lose a quest item because of a crash, then you can send a mail to have loaded again. If a mob you need to find for a quest disappears during a crash, you can apply to have it reloaded. And so on.

That being said, I do not agree with using glory points (= fame, renown) to change the past and scratch from your character's history events that happened. In the example above, I don't agree with paying for a new copy of the message with glory points.

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:04 am

To clarify, I did not say that an IMM or whoever, should stop what they are doing to fix/reset an OOCly failed quest. I meant that it should permissable to have it fixed *when such a person has the time to do so*.

After reading Dalvyn's post, I believe I may have read the initial post incorrectly. I would have to agree that you should not be able to reset a quest you failed IC because you made a mistake. It just doesn't make sense. I failed a quest I REALLY wanted to complete because I forgot to revert back from a polymorphed state. That was my fault. Oh well, I'll live. What sense would it make if I showed up again to the same mob and asked to do something I'd already done and failed? IRL I'd get laughed at and shown the door (or booted through it in some cases). We all make mistakes and you can't expect to succeed at everything you do. There is nothing wrong with failing a quest. If anything, it will teach you how to be more careful with quests in the future. As Aldren said, "It's just a game."

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:08 am

Yeah, IC failure = IC failure, and I agree with Aldren that -individual- quests are not by any means a high priority, just something that it would be nice to have fixed -if- there were time. I'm talking about the cases Dalvyn mentioned (game going down). One more question...does this in any way apply to quest rewards that go poof in crashes (bags with things in them disappearing, etc.), or is it only to quests in progress? I can see reasons for it being only the latter, but I'd like to make sure.

Edit: Also, I agree that it wouldn't be a glory thing, but was wondering if there ought to be a kismet cost since it takes an imm's time that could be spent on RP or something else. If there weren't, that would be cool, too.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:30 am

The only reason why I think it's kinda a neat idea is that I don't use my kismet for playing exotic races. What can I say, the most exotic I go is a sun elf. (Tremble in fear!)

But I hav ea question that is sort of on topic but off topic. What should I do if I think a quest has bugged on me, but it's been so long since I even tried to get ahold of anyone about the bug that I am not sure I could explain the problem I had?

Tee hee. Is that a bunch of something with a whole lot of nothing or what?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:18 am

Hviti wrote:Edit: Also, I agree that it wouldn't be a glory thing, but was wondering if there ought to be a kismet cost since it takes an imm's time that could be spent on RP or something else.

Let's be consistent here... Kismet has never been and is not a currency to pay up for imm's time. Otherwise, we would take kismet off you each time we run a roleplay.

Replacing quest rewards is not part of my job though.

I can take the blame for OOC problems during quests, but not for crashes.

If you can't describe the problem anymore, then I'm afraid there is not much I can do about quests that bugged on you.

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:48 am

Asking for everyone who wants to ask but wont.

What about crashes that we have nothing to do with, but are affected by anyways?

Ive lost countless items, some really high level quests, because of bugs/crashes. Should we request these? Or forget about them.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:47 pm

Dalvyn wrote:I can take the blame for OOC problems during quests, but not for crashes.

That being said, I would think that the imms are open to hear about any system where items lost in crashes would be reloaded. Yet, such a system would have to provide (partial) solutions to the following problems:

- How can the imms be sure that the application is valid and that the players are not asking for items they have never had?

- How much time will all the reloads take?

A system with regular, incremental, player file backups might be a good solution. It's a solution that has been suggested before, but that's not in my hands and it's not my place to say whether or not it is feasible.