[COMMAND] find

[Sindri]

There's another MU* I tried playing which has a command called "find". This shows you a list of where characters are in the game without actually giving any names. For example, it might tell you:

5 players are in City A
1 player is in Forest B
3 players are in Dungeon C
2 players are in Village D
etc.

The idea is to show you where there are opportunities for roleplay. You could travel to City A and see if there's some kind of meeting in progress, or switch to an alt who lives in Forest B and give that lonely character some company.

Would such a command be helpful/possible here?

[Aliatris]

It could lead to some OOC abuse, if you want to know if something IC is happening somewhere just go there or ask one who think could be there, I am for less OOC information as possible, in fact the who command although OOC it gives too much information.

[Moloch]

I see a lot of problems with this command. One being, someone types find, and gets this..
1 player in Shilmista.
Player then rushes down to Shilmista to see who it is and ends up harassing a newbie orc or other evil. I just don't think it's a very good idea .

[Algon]

I actually kind of like this idea, if it was used properly. It would make it alot easier to try and seak out RP, seeing that one player in shilmista and running down there to harass the newbe orc (not newbe player because of the kismit requirement) would be a great way to find some diffirent rp then just hanging around the square.

But I can also see a problem with having to much OOC information from this as well. So I am kind of in the middle for this one.

[Grafghur]

The way to get this to work is to have the option of opting in or out.
For both the find and who command. Same as setting up privacy on.

So if you don't want others to find you for RP, then you turn it off.

As for shilmista, well, as a young orc, the who command made it easy enough for others to find me and harass poor Graf. So the option of adding a 'find' command is a good idea in my books.

And btw, leave the young orcs alone or I'll have to come over there and eat your toes off!

[Raona]

With Graghur's suggested addition, I really like this idea, for what it is worth. Alas, it'll require new code, but it sounds like a neat idea for spontaneous RP. I don't think that's lacking in WD, but elsewhere, perhaps.

[Jaenoic]

I personally love this idea. I can't tell you how many times I've logged at odd hours to find 5(Or less!) people online and had no clue where they were. I would've liked to bump into them and RP rather than sit and be idle or waste my time rearranging packs or junk like that. But sadly, I hadn't a clue where to find them. So it follows that I like this idea.

I'm kind of against people being able to opt out of it being seen with it, though. That to me just says "I don't want to RP with anyone right now" or worse, "I'm somewhere that I'm not supposed to be - I don't want anyone finding me here." Of course that's not to say that's what everyone would use the opt-out for, and I'm sure that's not what Graf intended for it at all, but I really see opting out of it as sending those sort of messages.

As for the who command I think it's fine the way it is, don't touch it please.

[Japcil]

This already exists for immortals and may be a smooth transition to allow mortals to have it but there are two ways to go about it. One is a command that allows you to see how many players are in the area you are in along with other data like who wrote the area, another is at the end of a character's title it displays where the character is on the who list.

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Gnome   Japcil Kawalk , Golden General of Garl         Golden Oaks

Personally I prefer it under the who command... However this should be treated OOCly gained information so there would need to be restrictions on using this information.

[Dalvyn]

I find this idea very interesting. Obviously, there would need to be some restrictions and debate about what kind of information can be gained.

One thing it could perhaps solve is a rather frustrating situation (from an imm's point of view). It has often happened that a new player comes out of the Font of Knowledge in Waterdeep, and is a bit lost. He will then proceed to use "ask" to try and get some IC information (e.g., Where can I buy things? Where is the bank?). Generally, it is enough to incite the new player to go to the Market Square and see if someone there can help him, but... sometimes, there is nobody else in Waterdeep and people are either far away, in deep in dungeons.

Now, in such a situation, it would be nice if this command could let people know that there is someone - a new player (this can perhaps be guessed by their level / their number of hours online / the number of characters in their account / something else) - who is all alone in Waterdeep and who might be glad to get some IC help and to meet people.

In other situations though, I'm not sure exactly how it could help. It's possible to simply send a tell to know where people are.

Maybe it would be possible to only list people who are currently in the inhabited areas (i.e., in areas coloured yellow/B0 or bright green/A0 on the list you can get by typing "areas" in game). Would that information be useful?

[Raona]

It certainly would - but I can still see cases where PC's would be at a marked disadvantage if they were unable to opt out. The tiefling sneaking about Waterdeep, the Kelemvorite trying to complete a quest in Zhentil Keep - and there really are times when, legitimately, you know you'll have to come and go from the computer, or can only stay a short time, and you'd do people a favour by not "luring" them somewhere to RP only to find you gone or saying you need to log out or brush your teeth or throw the pasta or what have you.

I am particularly attune to the newbie with no help issue, as I like helping new players - thinking on that, not every first-level character is a newbie (and some of those get frustrated when you treat them as such, in my experience!) so it would be great to have a smart flag of sorts: something that checks lifetime kismet or game hours on an account, and PC location within the city (in the training temple vs. outside of it) and flags/highlights as a "new player venturing out in public for the first time" anyone who has both minimal game experience and is out in "public." I've reason to hope that in most cities, even the Keep and Menzo, this would bring out help for them, not some sort of twisted and sick newbie-preying vulture with a fetish for plain equipment.

Unfortunately, this would probably involve a substantial amount of new coding. It's all to easy to wish for presents when we don't have to make the gift ourselves! Sorry coders, if I'm being covetous!

[Selveem]

I see the counter-points about OOC abuse, but honestly how is this any different than a mage just teleporting to a player and forcing an awkward RP on the player? Technically both are just as easily abused. I believe in all reality we shouldn't be worried about the rotten apples that spoil it for the rest as those are easily dispatched by the Immortal staff.

That particular portion of the who list should definately be considered OOC, though. There is no way your character should know where everyone is at all times.

With that provision, I think the addition would be great!

[Lerytha]

how is this any different than a mage just teleporting to a player and forcing an awkward RP on the player? Technically both are just as easily abused. I believe in all reality we shouldn't be worried about the rotten apples that spoil it for the rest as those are easily dispatched by the Immortal staff.

Teleporting is IC, RP is IC, teleporting also has a component cost and is limited (mainly) to wizards and the odd priest.

I'm not against the "find" command, but I definitely think people should be able to turn it off. Why? Not because they are "avoiding" RP, but because they are doing something which they would rather people find out for themselves. i.e, a priest of Loviatar and a wizard of Shar are, when you type "find", in "Shilmista Forest". No prizes for guessing what they are doing there. Various goods instantly "happen to wander there", fair enough, and RP begins. Fine. But not every evil wants their evil plots to be foiled every day because of an OOC "find" command.

If an evil has their plot ruined by the aforementioned wizard teleporting in and "forcing" (that word which I object to, btw in a nice way) RP on them, tough.

If an evil has their plot ruined by some sprinting in miraculously to save the day... hmm... well, not so tough.

Its all very well saying, "Don't use this information except for OOC purposes". But what would the purpose be if we didn't use it for IC? To chat OOCly about where you are? To try to limit people not to use the "find" command is silly, imho.

What if there was just a command for the particular AREA. So, you're in the general area of Shilmista and type "find". That could be represented IC by rumours, strange whispers, etc. Someone in Silverymoon knowing some evil is in Zazesspur makes no sense to me. So maybe have it being IC, but limit it to 50 room radius?

Or even (now my brain is ticking), make it so that "find" does list everyone. But its up to the player OOC to work out which areas are IC for them to here rumours of. So, Player A types "find". Sees several people on, two in Shilmsta (B + C), one in Waterdeep (D), two in Ardeep (E + F). A is in the School of Wonder.

Realistically, rumours (or whatever) might tell them about D, E and F's location because they are fairly close. There's no way they would find out about B + C, though, so they'd have to ignore that tantalising temptation of RP in Shilmista.

Question is, do we trust people with it? I'm liable to say yes, really. As long as people understand about realism and how they shouldn't just charge in and save the day. On the other hand, people shouldn't automatically assume someone who accidentally walks in did it by mistake.

Apologies if anything in here offended anyone. I'm tired, filled with flu and ill. PM me if I've offended you and I'll do a nice reply and apologise.

~Ol

[Sindri]

I think I should emphasize that the command I was thinking of gave no names at all; it simply gave a head count for each area. If you go to the area with one character in it, you should not know in advance who that character is (at least in theory).

In practice, "find" and "who" together could give a fairly good idea of where everyone is, which is a drawback. The benefit is being able to, well, find other characters to interact with. I brought this up because I recently started a character in Silverymoon, and it's been hard for him to meet other characters without traveling down to Waterdeep.

After some thought, I realize that in the game where I encountered this, long-distance travel was much more difficult. This encouraged the other option I mentioned -- log on an alt who usually lives in that remote area, and who would appear there often IC.

[Algon]

I would have to agree with the being able to toggle this off. Say you are a harper and have been asked to gather information on the church of Cyric, so you travel to the keep. Now the skills that a rogue has would allow them to be in the city and not be recognized. Which is the whole point of being a rogue, to get into places without being seen and blend in to get what you want.
Now say that someone logs on and notices that there is only one other person in ZK besides them and knows them to be a goodie. Well that just ruins the entire possibilty of getting information from anyone. Because the cover is blown.
So I would like having the ability to turn it off, other then that. I am all for it, I think its a great idea.

[Dalvyn]

What I had in mind was something like this:

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Waterdeep  - 5 characters (including 2 AFK)
Daggerford - 1 character
Highmoon   - 2 characters

It would remain anonymous, of course. It's not supposed to replace the IC spells to locate people, but only to give indications as to where roleplay can be found. That's why it wouldn't cite names, and it wouldn't cite people found in guilds, temples, dungeons, or other similar areas, but only in "cities".

[Algon]

I like it alot! I think it would make it much easier to try and seak out some rp if you know where a group of people are.

[Kirkus]

What about only informing you of the players in the area you are in.

[Selveem]

Teleporting is IC, RP is IC, teleporting also has a component cost and is limited (mainly) to wizards and the odd priest.

No offense taken, but what I was meaning here is if I made a wizard and say I have seen you before IC, even without a greet I could justify the use of magic mirror and teleport in to "roleplay" with you.

What is so very different about having locations listed in the who command? Technically, you are granting the same amount of trust as you are with the magic mirror spell which any wizard who is guilded has access to. Yes, this is a logged command but if questioned the wizard could just say 'Yeah, I was in Waterdeep and I saw them.'

Realistically, if we can trust each other on this, what is the true difference?

[Grafghur]

No exactly, the morrior spell gives you the exact room the person is in, and teleport takes you directly there.

The "find" command is just the general area, you'll still need to find the person which can be difficult, for example, considering how big WD is.

Lastly, I still think the option of opting in or out of that function should be available, under a config -/+ command. Sometimes you just don't want others to know where you are via OCC means.

[Dalvyn]

Since the goal is to actually know where roleplay can be found, we could even actually restrict it so that it only produces lines like

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Area name - X players

when

1. The area is a city of encampment (B0 or A0).
2. X > 1, that is: there are at least 2 players in this area.

That might perhaps render the option to turn it off unnecessary, since there would be no obvious and easy way to locate singled-out characters.