Inventory affecting combat

[Cret]

Ive been going out on quests it seems quiet a bit of late helping people with quests. Alot of people are carrying WAY too much stuff arround. Backpacks with (for a lack of more common word) junk just in it. Not one that they are wearring, but 2 or 3 more just in their inventory. Crates - bags - packs. Everything, pusing most people to the limit, and even some mages over their limit causing them to constantly be in touch with the weave just for bulls strength.

Now what Im proposing is to cause people who are out and about to be hindered by what they carry! People in combat should not be 5lbs from their max carry. Oh, armor is heavy yes and we have penalties for it - even the armour proficency feat. However wouldnt it be a bit better for people to consider leaving stuff behind?

Perhaps having our tohit and concentration checks for casting. Do something to limit people just holding a bunch of 'junk'.

Any other thoughts on this?

[Mariela]

My only objection is that I tend to do quests in chunks. So sometimes I have to fill a bag full of stuff. Or I end up preserving someone else's stuff while they are in the lands of the dead. So I burden down my mount to maintain this stuff and sometimes, it means I am slightly heavier while I am cruising around trying to get stuff done.

And it's not like the quest stuff is labeled, "Discardable". I, as a newish player, don't know what I can junk or what I will need for leg two of a quest. I have praised Mariela's pack rat nature (without the skill) on several occasions cause it's come in handy.


Am I overloaded in my inventory, generally not. However, if I was being pealized for weight and the like, I'd rather it be for stamina than to hit. I already get my socks knocked off as it is.

[Elerian]

We already do get penalized, by not being able to move when we go past our max. No sense in penalizing us anymore. Especially with the fact their is no RP IC acceptable form of having storage (loading 5 packs, saddlebags and 3 crates on a pony is not acceptable IC, however for the sake of continuity and gameplay we do have to suspend reality just a bit), unless you have a house or a working guild storage room, which is rare in and of itself. Id rather see an effort brought to opening up PC houses, or evening allowing lowrate storage for a per month fee rather than any stricter penalties for carrying stuff.

[Oghma]

People are given various options to alleviate the amount of objects they are carrying, they can stow it in packs, they can place them on mounts or they can hand them off to others to carry or place them in carts. Sometimes this may make these items more suspect to theft or loss. But otherwise, there are feats that can be learned to make you more versatile with carrying things, there are larger containers you can by and so on. If you are weighed down it will affect you negatively, I am not sure how it affects your combat skills, but unless you know certain feats and have trained them so you can icly have the excuse to carry. I agree with Elerian above that you need to do the best you can, store things in appropriate packages, avoid for example putting spears in belt pouches and such. There are literally dozens if not loads of icly appropriate packs that can be bought for mounts or even pc's to store items and I am sure as soon as time is available and issues like a permanent home for the mud and others come into play, the idea of pc owned homes or storage will go back into discussion. Until then the code created hindrance of movement seems like a fine penalty for holding too many things, plus a pc's ability to rp they are holding a great deal.

[Tavik]

I've always considered the max weight/inventory to be your functional maximum. IRL I can pick up some pretty heavy stuff, but does that mean I can move around much with it? No. However, I can move around easily with a lesser amount of weight. I think this is reflected in the game. Can you be holding more than your max allows? Yes. Can you move with it? No. If you spend the money and stat/feat points on being able to carry around 400 lbs and 17 items, why should you be penalized for doing so? IRL I've carried a 100 lbs pack on my back, plus another of equal wieght in my arms (sort of) plus a couple other things for just under a mile (And just over a kilometer for you metric people out there). If I can do it, why can't a semi-superhuman character do it? There's my thoughts.

[Cret]

As people are pointing out it is an option we have, used to control our items. Keep them safe from theft. And just have a bunch of items available to you. Sure we can carry all of it. But Just because we can, does that mean we should?

If someone carries countless items, just to stop them from being stolen, could we not claim it is abuse of code/rules? Keeping 4, 5, 6 packs in your inventory just so you cant be stolen from, knowing thieves are not OOCly alowed to steal packs.

As for RP, to admit you can see what people are holding in thier hands, is to commit social suicide and admit your a thief or in the market of stealing. Thus people instatly put coins into packs and hide everything behind the no stealing of a container rule.

Please do not assume that Im only writing this as a front for stealing packs. It just a good point to stand on however.

[Oghma]

As was said people have the option to stow their items in packs or on mounts in containers or in carts. If someone has trained strength statistics to high levels it may be possible for them to carry great amounts. If they have not, then it would be the player's choice. I'm going to go ahead and state that I do not think it is abuse for the carrying of more than one pack, since it still fills an inventory slot.

I will say that 'social suicide' is a strong word, if you are caught and accused you can always rp appropraitely and claim it is not what it seems as long as you keep in the paramaters of the special ability rp rule. We all make choices and for everyone there is a reaction or result. A character may tuck something away if they choose to, or it might stay in the inventory long enough to be pinched.

What is meant mainly is that with our current system there is little option other than to stow things away as best as possible and rp appropriately. As I said before, do not stwo large things in inapropriate contianers, do not make horses wear pack and human items and only take them into appropriate places. I am sure in the future a new system may come into play and any suggestions to improve the system I think without making players give up or lose items more frequently than they do now would be a welcome change.

I propose actually limiting players from carry carrier items like packs to one or two, not including packs worn or held. An eventual cubby space that can be rented out for a period of time with a storage box. After the rental space is used up the items can be dropped into a dead cubby room and eventually tossed. That is the risk a pc would take in renting. This may not work it is complex to code and do, but it would be interesting.

I reccomend to those concerned about the package situation that you start a thread in the builders forum about creating and listing ideas, it is always good to get feedback and someone already building an area or in the process of doing so might be able to incorporate your suggestions into a new project. Remember any suggestion is good and welcome

[Selveem]

As the player of a notorious thief, the phrase 'Social Suicide' is actually not so far from the truth. As soon as people see someone in leathers and not know them to be hunters OOC, the quick tossing of everything into containers does happen. I know it's not intentional, but really when you're playing a thief and you see someone do it, it makes you want to just steal the pack anyhow in spite of the character's obvious suspicion. It's somewhat insulting to see a player metagame like that. Especially when it is so blatant.

Really, it happens more often than you'd think. So often, in fact, that when I play my halfing and I do see someone not throw all their stuff in their pack after I look at them I almost feel inclined to reward them (reward <lots> character!).

[Aveline]

Well on the subjects of people quickly putting their things away when they suspect someone to be a thief...wouldn't you do that in real life? If I'm walking down the street and I see someone looking shady...I'm pulling my purse closer to me, and making sure I do not have anything easily accessible for them to get to. And I am certainly not going to hold a big pile of money in my hands for them to stare at..I'm going to put it away. So I'm not sure how characters doing the same thing would be considered an OOC thing. If they suspect you to be a thief, it is perfectly IC in my opinion to try and keep thier things safe.

[Selveem]

So, what you're telling me is anyone in real life you see wearing leather you check to make sure all of your money and jewelry is all tucked away and out of sight?

This is what I'm talking about. Due to the types of armors that the different classes primarily wear, anyone seen sporting excessive leather is generally a rogue or a hunter. If a hunter, they normally have certain 'items' that make them obviously a hunter that other classes can't get (or sometimes even wear).

If you're seen sporting all leathers, you're pretty much pegged regardless of your character's description or how much charisma you've thrown into your character..

[Tavik]

Then why not wear something other than leathers? I understand that it is the only armor that a rogue can fight in, but you generally aren't fighting if you're going to steal something, right? I (along with everyone else I 'm sure) have seen every class of character in just regular clothing and unless you've got some sort of 'shady' description you're pretty much anonymous. That's what I do with one of my characters for the sole purpose of keeping others from instantly finding out what he is and it works exceptionally well.

[Kirkus]

Now I am no expert on thieves, but I think they might get the same penalties when they are stealing as when they are fighting. It would make sence. You have to be sneaky to steal, and how can you be sneaky when you are wearing many, many pounds of metal. Sure it can be done but that would be an even bigger abuse of code in my book.

Now as to the original topic of people carrying arround too much stuff, I think this is just another example of why people need to be buying dwellings. All of the towns need to have some housing areas built in. Waterdeep for instance has a really neat area that is basically only accessable to halflings and small sized creatures. It is a bit of a slumms type area if I remember correctly but still cool. Now what I would suggest would be something like renting a room at an inn but for prefabricated dwellings. I don't know how everything would work but I think this would be a start.

[Jaenoic]

As to Cret's original proposal, I honestly don't really see a need for it. Yeah, it makes more sense to be limited if you're carrying all the crap around, but... Who WANTS to be limited by something minor like that? I have to honestly say that if such a limit was applied, I'd be at least a little annoyed by it. And I don't see a point in limitations that are just annoying. We suspend reality on a lot of things to just help cope with that fact that code ISN'T reality, so it can't properly reflect everything.

I guess my point is, a little junk is a little junk. The point of the game isn't inventory management, it's about having fun with your roleplay and adventuring... Slaying dragons and duping stupid goodies into doing your evil bidding. Not so much about worrying about how many packs you're carrying. That was one thing I couldn't stand about Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, the whole "one gem takes up a slot in your inventory" deal. That's just annoying. XP Thankfully there are patches to change the stacking rules but that's very much not important here.

So my opinion is... No need to go limiting ourselves just to limit ourselves.

[Rhianon]

Instead of worrying about ways to make life more miserable for everyone why not work on enjoying the game, it is a GAME, it is NOT real life even though there are many who would just as soon have it real life. Work on your character and quit spending so much time thinking of what other players are doing or carrying. What ever happened to friends just getting together and enjoying the fun of the game. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but I can't help but see that it seems more important to try and change everything than to have a good time with what you have.

[Saradin]

Now what I would suggest would be something like renting a room at an inn but for prefabricated dwellings. I don't know how everything would work but I think this would be a start.

I think this idea was proposed a while back, but Mystra nixed it due to having seen bad results with it elsewhere.

For the topic at hand, I agree with Rhianon. The inventory system by its nature involves a lot of handwaving, unless you routinely see people walking around with broadswords and battleaxes sticking out of their pockets (if we assume pockets are what the inventory slots represent, the alternative being that objects float around in some mystical space accessible only to yourself and intrepid thieves), it seems like a minor thing to spend a lot of time and thought on.

If people want to carry around a ton of junk, they can suffer the weight penalties. It doesn't harm me, and I don't see how it detracts from roleplay at all given that AFAIK thieves are the only ones who can see your inventory, and they should be thrilled the more stuff you have in it.

[Kirkus]

Yeah I remember that discussion, and I was more than likely involved in it. While it may have been the wrong time for a system like that then, it could very well work now. And just because it didn't work elsewhere does not mean it won't work here. I strongly feel that dwellings need to be more attainable.

It would give us a place to empty our pockets of all of the unwanted items we hold onto for what ever reason. I personally carry a large amount of stuff that I would Love to toss into a store room of a dwelling but the area I want my dwelling attached to isn't in the game yet. Once it is I will buy my dwelling and thus be a lot lighter of both coin and carrying weight.

[Kelemvor]

Please do not detract from the original posters question or ideas by raising new topics within their thread.

I will say , though, that dwellings are far more accessible now than they ever were previously. This is in no small part due to Dalvyn's efforts to reduce the charge, create a system of online building of dwellings and administer an application process which is heavier on RP than coin.

http://www.gallwey.com/fk/board/viewtop ... 11&start=0

Consult the 3rd page of this thread and Dalvyn's summary of the process.