I'm still relatively new to FK, and learning - and I know there are a lot of other (relatively) new folks out there, learning with me! So while you certainly should not take this as authoritative, I offer it out of my own experiences in hopes that it might help some others going through roughly the same portion of the learning curve as myself.
For me, the hardest aspect to master in FK has been, and remains, staying in character as much as possible. When I first arrived, I didn't even appreciate this as a goal; now I try to do it, but still revert to OOC far more often than I would really need to, if I gave a situation a little more creative thought. FK is my first MUD, so I've been learning every aspect of MUD mechanics as part my being here. I think people in the same boat experience this as a greater challenge than those who are veterans of other MUDs...but it's still a challenge, so I thought it might make a good discussion topic.
I recall that as a wet-behind-the ears warrior in the market square, I appreciated no players more than those that helped me master commands. IGNITE, GET ALL.<THING>, WEAR <THING> AROUND, COMMANDS, SKILLS, SMOTE 'S brow wrinkles, and the like were just riveting revelations to me. It was frustrating to be a DnD veteran, and want to tell the DM I wanted to do x or y, but not knowing how to "code" it. I sometimes grew frustrated with those who tried to keep their counsel purely IC, especially when I didn't "get it": I felt like they were playing hard to get, especially when I couldn't figure out how to translate their IC hints into workable commands. There I was, scanning through the help files, trying this command and that, and they kept babbling and smoting, like RP was more important than my code question. They were modeling a good example, but I just really wanted to know how to get my (*#& plain longsword out of its sheath! Anyway, I mention this because I think it underlies some of my resistance in this area. I'm still quick to jump to OOC when helping players newer than myself, especially when they are having trouble with code issues. But I'm coming to appreciate the disruption that more seasoned players experience when someone jumps to OOC in the middle of an RP, and I'm trying to reform, at least when around others with similar levels of in-game experience as myself!
So, in the interest of sharing my experience (and in some cases my shame), here are a few concrete examples of what I mean:
Example 1: On many occasions, I share a code revelation very explicitly, in what I tell myself is an IC manner...something like
Raona notes Baldur's frustration, and explains "You have to SEARCH for it, lad, it's not sticking out in plain sight."
The all-caps = command thing was something I fell in love with as the aforementioned MUD newbie. But it's really pounding on the tack with a sledgehammer, in many cases! In this case, my fellow players were not newbs, so I could certainly have been more subtle. Just removing the caps would have been an improvement. Perhaps better still would have been a smote more precisely stating what Raona did, rather than telling someone else what to do. In the case of SEARCH WALL, perhaps:
Raona does a double-take as her search of the wall is rudely interrupted by her finger getting caught in a small hole.
Or, supposing the command was just SEARCH,
Raona does a double-take as her general search is rudely interrupted by her finger getting caught in a small hole on the north wall.
Most PC's will try variations on the suggested theme, command-wise, and come up with the code on their own. Yes, it's frustrating and sometimes embarrassing for the last one in a group, the one who hasn't gotten it yet...but maybe then an OTELL is OK...the others have had a chance to come up with it more on their own, and you are still in time to rescue this last soul from the frustration and embarassment of having everyone watch as they try in vain to get it to work themselves.
Example 2: Recently, a group I was in had been pounding it's collective head against one of Dalvyn's puzzles [which I, for one, adore, as devious as they sometimes are!]. We had reached what we thought was the eureka moment, having installed a control in a device, and were rubbing our figurative (and perhaps ICly literal) hands with glee at the prospect of finally operating it. Problem was, we tried a lot of command strings, and none of them had worked. Finally, I chanced upon simply using DOWN, all by itself, and it worked. Since I didn't think we wanted everyone to fiddle with the device until we had all come to the same revelation, but because I always feel frustrated when I don't understand what just happened, I O-blurted out
OSAY Just said DOWN!
My logic being that everyone would want to know how it was done, but that it wouldn't be IC for everyone to keep at messing with the device until they got it themselves. A gentle scolding from a veteran, though, and a little more thought, and I realized I could have, and should have, tried to give this information ICly. A workable IC explanation might have been
Raona jumps with a start, observing "My! It seems to respond to the mere suggestion of which direction one wishes to move, rather than any more explicit physical manipulation!"
That way I wouldn't have ruined the IC moment with an OOC blurt.
Example 3: This one is quite embarrassing, but perhaps underscores that you really haven't mastered "keepin' it on the IC" until you can do so under pressure and in a panic! Before I learned of the perils the hard way, I developed a habit of "cleaning up" dead foes by cremating them, even when traveling with others. I got so I did it as a matter of routine after a fight. After all, my own God was keen on that, and Raona's no small devotee of the teachings of the Church of Death. Problem is, after one particularly nasty (and rushed, because we were trying to rescue friends) combat, I did my usual enemy torching and COOKed not one, but both corpses of those we were sent to rescue! Aaaaa! I immediately went OOC, apologizing to the players, weeping for IMMly aid on ASK...yeah, the usual. I was panicked, and felt terrible. It also seemed utterly OOC for Raona to torch the corpses of people she was on a rescue mission for, so I was telling myself that the OOC damage had already been done. But no! Had I thought about it, there would have been a good IC way to deal with even this tragedy. We had been battling through kobolds, and they were using traps and magic aplenty. So (had I been able to keep my cool, and think about it...perhaps a lot to ask in this instance), I could have SMOTEd
Raona piles the kobold corpses in a pyre and sets them alight, bowing her head as they burn.
Raona leaps into the air as a vial of oil on one of the corpses catches fire, then quickly bursts, shooting flame everywhere. It is followed by another, and another, and the room is quickly engulfed in flames.
Raona dives to try to retrieve the bodies of *** and ***, but it is too late. They are already consumed by fire.
Raona kneels, ashen-faced, and beseeches her Lord for forgiveness.
Then maybe a PRAY GODS to see if anyone was online to make right of the mess, or an OOC apology to everyone and a discussion of what to do. But even in the worst of situations, I'm coming to appreciate, you should try to roll with IC...and with practice, you can often pull it off!
I'd love to hear some of your own examples...and also any thoughts you might have on at what point we should try to wean new players off of OOC completely...if ever, or from the get-go!
Keeping it IC (in character)
Re: Keeping it IC (in character)
No one could really grasp the twisted mind of Dalvyn's puzzles unless they have experienced it themselves... They are brilliant in their own way and I love it...Raona wrote:Dalvyn's puzzles [which I, for one, adore, as devious as they sometimes are!]
With that out of the way...
Some times when you make an OOC mistake... you should stop typing... look at how others reacted to it... and then after a few moments... roll with the dice. Stop typing after you made the mistake... don't let yourself type any OOC comments, most of the time... i'm sure they know you've made an OOC mistake....
Heck... a lot of times... it's good RP and makes for some interesting fun... who knows... you might refer yourself as a Goddess and not a FOLLOWER of a goddess...
Roll with it... I promise... it will end up with nothing but interesting RP that is unexpected... and what fun is hours and hours of expected RP?
Even for Dalvyn... he knows the area and what will happen... but he doesn't know the players reactions and how they will come up with the answers.
R.I.P.
You will never be forgotten..
In memory of Stephanie
and the best damn RPing I have ever had!
Thank you
You will never be forgotten..
In memory of Stephanie
and the best damn RPing I have ever had!
Thank you
Raona,
Great, thoughtful, reasoned and HONEST comments. Bravo! These kinds of positive suggestions make FK better for all of us.
Maybel said:
Great, thoughtful, reasoned and HONEST comments. Bravo! These kinds of positive suggestions make FK better for all of us.
Maybel said:
Too true! Some of the best moments I have observed as an imm or enjoyed as a player have come from such times. These situations are opportunities more than mistakes. I've even seen complete changes in long-term personality traits based on a typo.Heck... a lot of times... it's good RP and makes for some interesting fun... who knows... you might refer yourself as a Goddess and not a FOLLOWER of a goddess...
Roll with it... I promise... it will end up with nothing but interesting RP that is unexpected... and what fun is hours and hours of expected RP?
Lathander,
Commander of Creativity
Commander of Creativity
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Definitely a number of good suggestions. I, too, sometimes found it a little troublesome as a newbie when people tried to teach me code by IC means, but if it's easily communicable, I preferred that even then.
Though Raona already pointed it out, though, I would like to make a note that not ALL issues should be handled IC. My 6+ month hiatus from FK was fueled by a certain individual taking issue with one of my character's descriptions and, instead of addressing me about it OOC even after I requested he discuss it with me on tells, he proceeded to pick apart the adjectives I'd used in the middle of the market square, ICly saying "Well I don't think you look X; what makes you think you look X?" Quite simply, many characters are not fully aware of how they appear to other people, and as such would never self-describe as their descriptions read. To make matters worse, when I asked for a direct, OOC discussion instead of the passive-aggressive method he was using, he chided me to keep it IC. This is just an example of a case where "keeping it IC" was (in my opinion) abused, and I'm sure others do exist.
That said, I would like to applaud the helpfiles for all the commands on the command list-- it's immensely helpful in being able to simply direct newbies rather than having to figure out how to word an explicit code command ICly. One thing I might suggest is the addition to the pet helpfile of how to name a pet, since trying to learn that can be more expensive than most newbies can handle.
As for my own experiences, I'd like to support the conclusion that accidents can be fun! A character of mine wandered into the Underdark once due to my own misunderstanding of a warning posted at the tunnel down, and, though I was utterly convinced my poor bones were going to be lost to the darkness forever, I wandered about, heart all a-flutter, until by some great miracle (and more than a little chutzpah and luck) I found my way out. Now, rather than having been transfered out by a kind IMM, my character has a great story to tell which showcases her curiosity-killed-the-cat nature wonderfully.
As for Raona's question, I think it's best to avoid as much OOC as possible from the get-go, although I'd certainly think it wise not to be hostile when a newbie has an OOC question that would be really tough to answer IC-- for example, someone in need of clarification about a critical helpfile like the description or killmodes. Additionally, if a player just isn't getting hints and is becoming really agitated, I suspect it would be beneficial to just tell them OOC-- everyone has something, once in a while, that they just can't pick up without explicit instruction.
Though Raona already pointed it out, though, I would like to make a note that not ALL issues should be handled IC. My 6+ month hiatus from FK was fueled by a certain individual taking issue with one of my character's descriptions and, instead of addressing me about it OOC even after I requested he discuss it with me on tells, he proceeded to pick apart the adjectives I'd used in the middle of the market square, ICly saying "Well I don't think you look X; what makes you think you look X?" Quite simply, many characters are not fully aware of how they appear to other people, and as such would never self-describe as their descriptions read. To make matters worse, when I asked for a direct, OOC discussion instead of the passive-aggressive method he was using, he chided me to keep it IC. This is just an example of a case where "keeping it IC" was (in my opinion) abused, and I'm sure others do exist.
That said, I would like to applaud the helpfiles for all the commands on the command list-- it's immensely helpful in being able to simply direct newbies rather than having to figure out how to word an explicit code command ICly. One thing I might suggest is the addition to the pet helpfile of how to name a pet, since trying to learn that can be more expensive than most newbies can handle.
As for my own experiences, I'd like to support the conclusion that accidents can be fun! A character of mine wandered into the Underdark once due to my own misunderstanding of a warning posted at the tunnel down, and, though I was utterly convinced my poor bones were going to be lost to the darkness forever, I wandered about, heart all a-flutter, until by some great miracle (and more than a little chutzpah and luck) I found my way out. Now, rather than having been transfered out by a kind IMM, my character has a great story to tell which showcases her curiosity-killed-the-cat nature wonderfully.
As for Raona's question, I think it's best to avoid as much OOC as possible from the get-go, although I'd certainly think it wise not to be hostile when a newbie has an OOC question that would be really tough to answer IC-- for example, someone in need of clarification about a critical helpfile like the description or killmodes. Additionally, if a player just isn't getting hints and is becoming really agitated, I suspect it would be beneficial to just tell them OOC-- everyone has something, once in a while, that they just can't pick up without explicit instruction.
Dear Enemy: May the Lord hate you and all your kind, may you be turned orange in hue, and may your head fall off at an awkward moment.
I agree and re-inforce all that is presented here, but I would like to add in one other arguement for acceptable use of OOC: IC confrontation. I've been in multiple confrontational situations (Some Pkill, some not) in which I found myself (me, not the character) getting rather upset and angry. It started finding its way into my character's RP, which made matters worse. Then the other person asks/says something friendly OOC and all that anger I felt was defused and I was reminded that this is just a game and the RP does not reflect the other person's attitude toward me. It simply reflects that person's character's attitude toward my character. I've always found that a nice little OOC comment in these delicate situations, does wonders when I think the other person might be getting upset or if I'm getting upset. I realize some people may be able to distance themselves better than I do and don't run into this, but for those who do, this has never failed to remove any negative feelings from myself.
Keep in mind, I'm not promoting an excuse for using OOC whenever you like, I am simply pointing out a method that I have found to be effective in avoiding bad OOC feelings between players.
Keep in mind, I'm not promoting an excuse for using OOC whenever you like, I am simply pointing out a method that I have found to be effective in avoiding bad OOC feelings between players.
Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die. ~Mel Brooks