Proposal for changes to trade system

[Solaghar]

There are obviously problems with how the trade systems work. People are required to spam the commands for tedious hour-after-hour in one of the least-RP friendly activities ever created for a MUD that prides itself on RP.

Here's my proposal, in short.

1) No one can learn more than two trades.

2) Trades get better much faster, at least to the point where you can create useful objects, not just mining tin for 100 hours, or crafting crappy daggers.

3) Some expansion of what are currently some really dull trades to be more useful. Smelting and Mining are examples of things that are extremely random and could be expanded to be more interesting.

The goal behind this would be to make crafting more fun, and help develop actual specialization between players. For instance right now, people start off learning mining, then smelting, then armor and weaponsmithing, so it's entirely vertical. You learn everything, you need no one else. It's completely unrealistic and in this case, I think realism is better. What master craftsman runs around in the mines for days at a time finding his own metal? By limiting people to two trades, you ensure that people specialize in things they need.

Mining/smelting might be a common combination. Similarly armorsmithing and smelting might go well together, to make really interesting-looking pieces. Smelting and lapidary. Mining and lapidary. You see what I mean... by allowing people two trade choices, we ensure they have some options of things to do, but they also have to rely on others to help them out. If you learn smelting and armorsmithing, you still need someone to mine the ore for you. Similarly if you make jewelry, you shouldn't be expected to toil in the mines or otherwise, you should simply buy the raw material from a store. I think a number of PC-owned stores which traded in raw materials for all crafts might be a good idea, though it would be cheaper to buy straight from the player, it at least ensures that you don't *need* to have someone to provide you with the materials for your crafts 24/7, though the rarer materials should remain the providence of PCs. You shouldn't find stores full of mithril or titanium unless it's a PC store, but there's nothing wrong with a store full of iron or tin ore.

Some currently dull trades would need to be expanded, or given more options. For instance I'd say about smelting, things might be like this. Alloys like steel and bronze, you can't mine them in reality. Make them things that you can smelt by combining a certain number of the right ores in an object, like a smelter. Put in 4 copper, 1 tin and you get 1 bronze out. Same with steel... put in 4 iron or so, 1 charcoal, get 1 steel out. Adamantine is technically an ore as well, of steel and adamantite, which I don't believe is something which can be mined, though you can melt things which the code considers "adamantium". Smelting could also be involved in the coloring of metals. Electrum is made in reality by mixing gold and silver. The addition of certain acids could be used by smelters to color the metal, as in reality. Hence smelting could be a fun and important part.

Mining should allow one to seek out specific ores, based on your skill level as now. If you're a GM at mining and you happen to want tin to make some bronze, from what I understand you have an easier time finding mithril and titanium than plain tin. Let people seek out veins of ore commiserate with their skill level or below, let them seek out certain gemstones and the like, to sell to jewelers and other people who will use them.

These are just suggestions to make two of the relatively dull and monotonous trades more interesting and allow for a much greater amount of trade and such. Obviously they're not tied up with the basic idea, I just offer them as an example of how things could be improved for both. Any trade could be deepened without a lot of nasty code change.

But the crux of my argument, that trades should be made simpler to master, but limited in what you can do, with wider options for what you can do with them, would allow people to RP more with it, to deal with others rather than have to rely upon going from mining to smelting to swordsmithing all in the same person as tends to happen now. When people can use trades in a useful way without grinding them for 100 hours straight, then they iwll be happier to take them. Also I notice that there is a big tendency for certain trades to be available for good/neutral people as opposed to evil people. Perhaps this could be discussed and rectified. I've never seen an evil person who could do any armorsmithing or any other service that good people tend to have available. Perhaps certain trades should be widened in who gets to learn them.

I could write and write and write, but I'll stop... discuss, and if people have questions, I will clarify what I am thinking.

[Raona]

While I think it unrealistic to strictly limit people to two trades, the system could certainly be modified to reward specialization. Perhaps learning trades becomes progressively harder as your total knowledge of them increases: so that mastering smelting would be a relatively quick and simple process if it were your only focus (only trade), but would be quite slow if you know six trades and had grandmastered two of them already. One's brain can only take in and retain so much information, eh?

I really like your suggestions for enhancing smelting...I'd add that mining might be made more interesting, and less twinkish, if MINE's outcome was less cut and dried. (Perhaps it is already, and I just don't have anyone good enough at mine to know it?) A % chance of finding *something* in almost any stone area, a better % chance of some specific ores in some spots, but also a tiny chance of finding a gem, or an ancient artifact, or a monster's lair if you dig/mine elsewhere. Skill in dig might also aid one in mining, perhaps speed it up a touch.

[Ceara]

Personally I like that we can learn more than one or two trades. Until recently I didn't think we could.

Also some trades are dependant upon others, some weapons can't be made with weapon smithing without having woodworking and vice versa.

I would like to see some pc's opening shops with raw materials, my character would and will rather buy the materials then gathering it herself and focus upon creating things.

[Leohand]

Problem, your basic Miner/Smith might sound like two trades, but it's actually 4.

Mining
Smelting
Weaponcrafting
Armorcrafting

[Sindri]

I really like the idea of specialization, even though I've picked up more trades than I can learn in a reasonable time. (Much as in real life, whenever I see a new hobby I think "hey! that looks cool," and end up sort of tinkering with everything. Variety is fun.)

Here's a possible compromise: trade guilds.

The idea would be that you could learn three or four trades if you want, but you could only join one guild. This would let you specialize in one trade, or perhaps two "linked" trades (say, a Metallurgists' Guild for mining/smelting, and an Armsmaking Guild for weaponsmithing/woodworking.) The guild would provide:

- Ability to grandmaster the trade (others would have the skill level capped somewhere, since those are just "hobbies.")
- Accelerated learning (a PC or NPC teacher? or just tools that give trade bonuses?)
- Networking: something like the "faith list" command, but showing guild members and their skill levels. This would tell you who might be a good work partner, whom to ask for lessons, etc.
- Further networking: lists of people who could use your products. For example, the metallurgists' guild could provide a list of smiths (and vice versa).
- Alternatively, if people would rather keep their skill levels private, each guild could just have a noticeboard for people seeking masters, apprentices, buyers, and/or sellers.

The existing quests to learn trades would remain in place. To join a guild you would have to first do one of those quests, and then demonstrate a basic understanding of the trade (maybe a guild officer would examine you, much as faith managers do for faiths).