levels below ten

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:46 pm

While I'm all for discussing a way to make RP playing as rewarding as bashing, it does not solve the immediate problem, and should take place when the EXP gain is addressed in a manner of bringing back in the direction it so harshly swayed from.

To simply begin a discussion of ways to add to other forms of rewards and leave the current exp gain as it is, is basically like leaving a big gaping hole in a boat while you discuss seating arrangements for the rafts, or even more appropriate, how to build the rafts out of the pieces about the deck because there are no rafts.

Kind of like when Energy Drain came out when no one had Restoration in order to counter the level drain, or the newer insta-death spells while saves and resists are still broken, it's an incomplete implementation with no remedy, that should have had a remedy before it was implemented. And yes, if that means I'm saying,

"We should turn the exp gain back up, so that people can actually gain levels until we come to a consensus on a good system that works for any style of player, and have it coded and tested and can implement it."

Then that's what I'm saying.

I frankly don't even care if that means a person who likes to grind can get a level 50 in 50 hours again for the time being, so long as those of us who RP can actually gain a level on a quest or adventure when we feel like it. If you see a 50 hour level 50 as an imm, use punishment, in person.

Enforce roleplay manually. That is the easiest solution, and it doesn't need playtesting.

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:07 pm

I really don't understand what is the big deal if it takes someone 50 hours to get to level 50.

So what?
It would be a big deal if the mud was soley PC versus PC play. Combat arena... but it's not. It's obviously that RP without PC on PC interactions in terms fo fighting is not the main point here. Besides the fact that most of the people who do those sort of interactions are generally those who ALREADY have that sort of 50 level power in some form or another.

Yes, I'm looking at you Zarafae! That is a prime example of a character who the experiance pull right now is not effecting cause they already have a great deal of power code wise so.. cutting everyone else's experiance is only supporting the amount of power they have. Instead of leveling it off and making it fair for everyone. It's reinforcing that those who are already that high level are in fact, gods and will stomp you into the ground. (Don't get me wrong, Zarafae is a peach! ANd funny when you run across her at times... don't zat her gods! But she's just a good example!) And I am not advocating removing what they have gotten. Or even speeding theings up to let people catch up with them. But at the very least don't forbid us from reaching those levels too. Right now, it's forbidden cause we can't even accidently or slow plod get there. I'm a slow plodder. I'll go days RPing.. then a few days training... and just kinda wander through experiance. And still.... I should be coming up with more than what I have currently.

Solutions?

1) The experiance needs to be less of a... deterant and more of a background reward. Let people grind if they are grinders. Who cares. When it gets right down to it, the game is mostly RP. And if they can't RP their way through a paper bag, let them have their toys. At the very least they can stalk aroudn with their might plain battle axe with their level 48 and be happy.

2) Rewards we get from one another for RP should be more worthwhile if we want a system of perks. I dunno what kinda perks one should get, but honestly I give rewards to people who really wet my whistle while we are playing and so I give them out rarely. The same is true for many "old school' players. I think THAT is what we should be honoring and clammoring and working our tails off for. Not levels.

3) Quests are good. Quests let us get new things to put into our packs and go.. Hmm... do I really want it? Even if it's something silly, unmagical. I love quests. Things designed to be Solo quests like the delivery service and the like.. thumbs up! That way, when you are bored, you still have something you can be doing!

4) In the same line of quests, I would love to see more events! I would love to see more faith events.... class events.... general events. Yes, they are hard work, but they are always so much fun RP wise. It's one of my favorite things to attend personally cause so many people get to flash their stuff.. ya know?

Anyways...that's me again.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:35 pm

And yes, if that means I'm saying,

"We should turn the exp gain back up, so that people can actually gain levels until we come to a consensus on a good system that works for any style of player, and have it coded and tested and can implement it."

Kregor, you are SUCH a TWINK!

I'm not trying to say that increasing the xp gain is bad. Shoot back some numbers. I'm not a code person and do not know how xp is currently structured, but I can understand some of the relationships. If killing a level 1 creature currently nets someone X amount of experience points and back in the day it netted Z xp, maybe we need to set it to Y xp. I really don't like L50 in 50 hours and disagree with you that it would be good to have that. I do agree (based on the many many posts about the current difficulties) that it is now too slow. Let's find a middle ground.

Those of you on the Code Council, if one of you wouldn't mind taking the time to post the specifics of how the current system works, I think it will help to work out a way to improve it. Without knowing where to start, suggestions are hard to give.

If such information is preferred to be kept behind the scenes for now, that's fine, but please post it in the Code Council forum so that imms and council members can look at it and offer some ideas.

This seems to me to currently be the most important issue identified by our playerbase. Let's see what we can do to fix it and then move on to the next one.

TONGUE FIRMLY IN CHEEK, NOT A SERIOUS SUGGESTION, BASED SOLELY ON THE PG-13 DEBATE IN ANOTHER THREAD, INTENDED ONLY AS A JOKE, STINKS THAT I HAVE TO GIVE THIS DISCLAIMER, I LIKE TRAFFIC LIGHTS BUT ONLY WHEN THEY'RE GREEN, WHATEVER ELSE YOU NEED TO READ FROM ME SO YOU DON'T TAKE OFFENSE...
Should homosexual PCs gain xp at the same rate as heterosexual PCs?

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:39 pm

Should homosexual PCs gain xp at the same rate as heterosexual PCs?

Only with dinner and a movie first.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:07 am

Nysan wrote:
Should homosexual PCs gain xp at the same rate as heterosexual PCs?
Only with dinner and a movie first.

*dies*

HAHAHAHA!

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:17 am

Glim wrote:
Nysan wrote:
Should homosexual PCs gain xp at the same rate as heterosexual PCs?
Only with dinner and a movie first.

*dies*

HAHAHAHA!

*bows*

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:34 am

Lathander wrote:Should homosexual PCs gain xp at the same rate as heterosexual PCs?

Does it count if one homosexual PC is a bender and therefore is not truly of the same sex??

Arothian · Post by **Arothian** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:45 am

On sort of a same note, I'd like to see a significant experience increase in the amount you get when your character goes on a bender. I really think that it helps to flesh out the character when you are completely and totally trashed, and therefore you should get significantly more experience than you do currently.

...what?

What do you mean you don't get experience for getting stinking drunk?
*puts bottle away quickly*

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:54 am

A posting has been made in the Apprentice Forum, If Mask elects to make such information public to all of the game, he should make such a post.

Caelyvar · Post by **Caelyvar** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:56 pm

Should homosexual PCs gain xp at the same rate as heterosexual PCs?

Does it count if one homosexual PC is a bender and therefore is not truly of the same sex??

But kregor, then if everyone who is a bender got extra xp then well. . . all the boys on here would be getting that extra xp and it wouldnt be a bonus at all!

I AM LOOKING AT YOU MAZIKEEN!!!!

*giggles*

So yes, homosexual PC's should get MORE xp . . .yay for me! I have a 6th level fighter who needs some more xp!

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:42 pm

I have never been more offended by the lack of political correctness, here. It makes me sick, to see such casually written jibes targetted at just one group.

As a result, I request the following:

All homosexual characters are entitled to -

Fashion Sense Skill
Innate Haircut Sense Skill
A unique "Detect Sexuality" spell

Only when these skills and spells are given at grandmaster to all homosexual characters, and levelling made easier, will this debate be given any true equality.

---------------

But anyway.

I agree (again) with Kregor, that perhaps it is better to raise the amount of xp gained by people UNTIL the problem is solved with a better approach. And I would also add I don't think Kregor said level 50 in 50 hours was good, just that that rare thing could be dealt with better with a different thing than penalising everyone. But if its obvious this matter won't be addressed in the short-term, I'll just grit and bear it.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:09 am

Homosexual PCs should not get the same exp, no.

Following the trend to promote diverse groping, groping with the same sex shouldn't get as much as groping with a different sex *nod self*

I dont think groping with your pets should get more exp than being solo though, have to draw the line somewhere.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 am

*sigh*

Lathander has derailed the thread...

...again...

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:38 am

Wait a minute....huh?!

Did that really just happen? Lathander took it there...

And my friends wonder why I spend hours on this game, it's because you lot are the funniest group I know...lol

And Kelemvor, how can one possible grope solo? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? *awaits backlash*

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:50 am

Glim wrote:*sigh*

Lathander has derailed the thread...

...again...

I'll take some blame with my dinner and a movie comment....but it was just too tempting!

Scylere · Post by **Scylere** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:08 pm

Suggestions:

1. Definitely allow pcs to join guilds/faiths at level one - that's when the fun begins.

2. Exp for quests related to the pc's alignment.
LE Quest
LE pc = most exp
NE/CE pc = greater exp
LN pc = greater exp
CG/NG pc = least exp
LG pc = lesser exp

3. Greater exp for BLESS and REWARD commands.

4. Greater exp for quests completed.

5. Greater exp for quests related to your faith/guild.

6. A QUESTREWARD command for high ranking members of faiths/guilds (Like Inner Circle members). The high ranking member could give quests faith/guild-related for members to complete.
questreward <name>

7. Larger and more frequent IMM rewards!:D Players just can't keep up with all the good rp, and there is A LOT.

8. Standard exp for mobs, no matter what level the pc is. This encourages grouping to kill higher level mobs.

9. Increase difficulty of quests so that grouping is required - then greater exp for quests completed.

10. Give exp for training skills, spells, trades, weapons, languages, etc, as opposed to taking exp.

11. Greater exp for using skills, spells, feats, trades, languages, etc.

Solaghar · Post by **Solaghar** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:53 pm

To answer one point of Scylere's above, standard set exp per mob... I know the problem with that is that high level people could knock out high-level mobs and then allow their low level friends to kill them safely for massive exp gains and super-easy leveling.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:52 am

Solaghar wrote:To answer one point of Scylere's above, standard set exp per mob... I know the problem with that is that high level people could knock out high-level mobs and then allow their low level friends to kill them safely for massive exp gains and super-easy leveling.

I think XP is doled out on the basis of damage actually done to a foe, so this wouldn't really work...unless lowbies could pound on stunned monsters, and they seem about as hard to hit when stunned as otherwise. In any case, I think a BIG part of the issue at hand is to whether to let logic like this sway us: should potential abuse decide how things are done, play a role in deciding it, or play no role? I think right now we are in the middle.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:01 am

Scylere wrote:Suggestions:

1. Definitely allow pcs to join guilds/faiths at level one - that's when the fun begins.

I agree with this, not much to add.

Scylere wrote: 2. Exp for quests related to the pc's alignment.
LE Quest
LE pc = most exp
NE/CE pc = greater exp
LN pc = greater exp
CG/NG pc = least exp
LG pc = lesser exp

I disagree with this, alignment should have nothing to do with exp gains, its something you base RP off of.

Scylere wrote: 3. Greater exp for BLESS and REWARD commands.

Having seen how much exp is given, trust me that there are at a balanced level.

Scylere wrote: 4. Greater exp for quests completed.

They use reward, see note above.

Scylere wrote: 5. Greater exp for quests related to your faith/guild.

Many quests give favour for doing a quest related to your faith already, no reason for more exp just beacause they worship the same beliefs.

Scylere wrote: 6. A QUESTREWARD command for high ranking members of faiths/guilds (Like Inner Circle members). The high ranking member could give quests faith/guild-related for members to complete.
questreward <name>

I personally love to give out quests as a FM, only problem is they hardly like to do the tasks involved, please PM me with an suggestions or post them here, maybe its the quests I choose to give? Other than thay no reason to make a command for something like that IMO.

Scylere wrote: 8. Standard exp for mobs, no matter what level the pc is. This encourages grouping to kill higher level mobs.

No, its balanced right now, just harder than it once was, do this and all that balance goes out the window.

Scylere wrote: 9. Increase difficulty of quests so that grouping is required - then greater exp for quests completed.

Feel free to send quest suggesstions to fkbuilders@lists.skynet.ie

Scylere wrote: 10. Give exp for training skills, spells, trades, weapons, languages, etc, as opposed to taking exp.

We cannot do that unless we moved the skill system to a point system. If you have any question about that search for posts by Kregor about said topic, his are very informative.

Scylere wrote: 11. Greater exp for using skills, spells, feats, trades, languages, etc.

Again a balance issue, where they are at, IMO is perfect. They recently were changed as well so it used to be harder to increase them and the exp you gained from them was less.

Scylere · Post by **Scylere** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:09 am

Just a couple comments concerning Japcil's previous post...

Alignment is roleplay. You do a quest that's not in line with your alignment, that's bad roleplay. It makes perfect sense that experience given from quests should be altered, not based but altered, by alignment.

I also don't really appreciate a massive pounding of negative comments about suggestions. I tried to give some suggestions that could divert the rewarding of experience away from "mob grinding" and more towards quests, alignment, faiths, guilds, etc. I don't feel it's productive to just bash other people's posts. Why don't we all try giving suggestions?