Levels ~40-50

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:21 pm

Dalvyn wrote:Most often, being level 50 just means that you have ground enough mobs to get the experience to level to 50, nothing more than that.

This seems to be very much a recurring point on this board. I don't know how widespread the "grind to 50" is, but I know from 35 and up, most of my leveling (on my only 50) was coincidental-- and I imagine I'm not entirely alone in this. However, if having characters without a solid RP basis at level 50 is a problem, or is becoming one, I'd like to throw out a few possible solutions for discussion.

1 - Make partying mechanically much more important at high levels. That paired with the Undermountain Incident concerning a party that was doing nothing but killing mobs might have some impact.

2 - If/when the RP-XP system is instituted, add in a "system of diminishing returns" whereby one's XP is optimized by a combination of the two ways of gaining it, with the balance tipping in the favor of the RP side as one reaches higher levels.

3 - XP from improving at skills/trades is already in game, at least to some degree. I know I've heard the teaching system is under review, so this could make that a more powerful way to gain XP without grinding-- especially if the teachers get XP/skill improvement as well, which I could certainly see being reasonable-- I know I tend to gain a deeper understanding of many things I already know well when I find myself needing to teach someone else.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:41 am

Grinding after lvl 40 is already the most tedious thing in the world, I tried it for half a level and never did it again...

And it's not worth it at all, does anyone whos level 50 notice that the world suddenly changes for them? I'd say that RP interactions are basically the same and for the most part you are about as powerful as you were at lvl 40

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:36 am

Ive been running arround, having only 1 level 50 char (gasp, i know.. im such a twink right?) That i can gain levels faster in my 30's and 40s then i can at a under 15-20. Its how long you can support yourself in combat thats the problem. Low level mobs do just as much damage, they just happen to take less themselves and so do I.

I think about level 30, PC's start to outlevel the mobs they fight, thus making it easier to gain XP.

Larethiel · Post by **Larethiel** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:29 am

I've made the experience that, upon reaching level 50 there's not too much to do as you don't need to level anymore and stake your xp for whatever purposes

In my opinion, roleplay gets far more important on those levels

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:51 pm

Level 50... I shall weep for joy when I reach that exquisite layer of Mount Celestia.

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, I've always been of the mind that if you wanted PURE RP ONLY, then a MUSH is for you. Granted, FK is a really, really, really RP intensive atmosphere (and I relish every bit of it), but it is still a MUD with code. I think this serves to ENHANCE the RP. When our characters want to track, they actually CAN track. When they want to have an archery contest, they are able to. If you want to teleport to the aid of a friend...it is all a coded possibility. Absolutely lovely.

I say this because if one of my PC's states that he will roast every living thing around him, there is CODE to back it up

(exaggerated example for the purpose of making a point. Fear not

)

So, getting to level 50 does, in fact, constitute a tougher character. Simple as that. You hit harder, live longer, and can do more things at level 50. The RP doesn't change, but what you can DO certainly does.

It's hard work getting that level, and something I've only accomplished once. I, for one, am proud of it. To say it's only the result of the mindless grinding of an automaton is borderline insulting. I invested hundreds of hours of both RP and adventuring, and to call it "grinding" is a gross understatement. You wanna know what grinding is, play WoW! I did, and that's why I'm back here on FK.

If the levels and the abilities and whatnot are only "stage props," why have them there at all? You can smote a fireball as easily as not. Why? Simple answer: It's FUN!

Just my two coppers.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:22 pm

I did, actually. And the type of grinding I've been doing here recently to get a single level seems about the same. This thread wasn't created nor was my response intended to be insulting. I was pointing out what it feels like due to the desired (or what I percieved to be desired) effect.

The grinding was not the reason I left World of Warcraft. It was that it began to feel like a second job. My interest quickly waned and I found myself more interested in other things.

That being said, you are right. This is a MUD and not a MUSH. There /is/ (generally) code to back anything that your character can boast. I love that about a MUD. Taking liberties with what you have is generally frowned upon by the staff and mostly annoying to other players.

Rhiel, I'm not sure what level you stopped at and how long ago since you attempted to level, but I do happen to have multiple mid-level characters and even more low level characters. If you haven't already tried it, test the new leveling system out and see what you think.

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:26 am

Whoops! I think we misunderstood each other there, Selveem. When I said it was insulting, I wasn't implying YOU were insulting me. Sorry for any confusion. lol. It was in a completely rhetorical sense. I am actually not insulted at all. I was only trying to make a point.

And yes, the leveling system is QUITE different from what I remember. If a person wishes to get anywhere with their budding characters in a sensible amount of time, a large quantity of time really needs to be devoted to, for lack of a better term, I will call "hack n' slash".

In regards to WoW, I agree. It did become a mind-numbing exercise in tedium after a couple months. That is the fear I have with this new leveling system. While I LOOOVE the RP here (playing WoW made me all the more appreciative) I *do* also like to go out and bash baddies. For me, the coded "hack n' slash" is a pleasant backdrop to the RP and so forth. I don't want PURE hack n' slash, that's boring. But a healthy balance of baddie bashing and RP makes this the best game around. I am, as I stated above, afraid that it may be getting unbalanced. Which, that is of course my OPINION only. Not intended to insult, or cause any tempers to flare...it's just my honest opinion.

So, again, my apologies Selveem, that was not directed as a flame against you. I should have worded more carefully.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:42 am

You know, the more I think about it, the less I believe people reaching 50 is a problem.

Hypothetical:
So, you get to level 50 - then what? Okay, so now you go train up your skills. Making progress. Good times. You're getting pretty powerful. Maybe now it's time to really push yourself and see what you're capable of. Wow, you killed even that? Let's try a couple of them; wait, did that just say you were beheaded? So, now you died. In all of this mind-numbing mob-bashing, you have neglected to twink your social skills in the MUD; you now have a problem. Your character is dead and because you neglected to meet people, you have no one to contact (or, better, you became a tyrant and plenty know you but none are upset you are dead). You have 2 choices: Reincarnate and take that hit on your Con or pray. If you pray, you bring notice to yourself and do you believe an Imm feels inclined to help someone they believe is not respecting the required RP aspect of the game? I'll wager you'll be sitting there a good, long time.

Even if someone is a powerful level 50, what good are they if they don't interact with others? LOL, go solo Undermountain? Then what? Go PK someone? Well, now they've flagged themselves as a PKiller (generally frowned upon, IMO, regardless of the rules). If you consistently kill other PCs, you're going to take a fall one way or another. Whether it is Imm intervention or you get mobbed by players.

I guess I just fail to see the big deal regarding all this sparkly leveling stuff. Maybe it's just that I'm an older player and have had multiple level 50s?

Sairaven · Post by **Sairaven** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:30 pm

Whether it is Imm intervention or you get mobbed by players.

Make love, not Warcraft.

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:12 pm

Well, Selveem, I can't argue with what you just said.

Why? Welll...erm...all of what you just said happened to me (Rhiel). I wasn't anti-social, I just had a (well-deserved) bad rep. When I died, there was rejoicing in the streets.

I had some really good RP though!! I got teleported to Menzo, turned into a Drider, shipped off to the Abyss, thwacked by Mystra, cursed by Beshaba, cursed by Cyric (my own deity, lol), and so on....all negative things, to be sure. But it was FUN! Stat-wise, Rhiel is soooooo horrible these days. But I don't want to stop playing him? Why? The RP is just too juicy! He is a drama-queen (much like myself) and EVERYONE hates him. Even the other evils. That in itself makes for an interesting social life. lol. I think it's fair to see that as a statistical creature, Rhiel is done. I won't be doing anything "grind-esque" on him. He is pure RP nowadays. And I'm fine with that.

BUT! I still like leveling. It's just me, perhaps, to think of it as fun. I dunno. This time around though, I'm not failing to interact with others. I've have some good times with my druid so far, and I'm trying to work towards bettering my reputation. I don't know if people really considered me a twink, I think I was more or less regarded as a malicious Pkiller. Which, I cannot deny, was TRUE. Nowadays, after having been whacked so many times, I no longer have ANY taste for PK. I suppose if my RP calls for it, I will engage in lethal combat, but I will certainly look for alternatives.

I consider Rhiel to be a lesson well learned. I guess I'm saying this to all those who, upon thinking of Rhiel and his player, wince and get ready for a fight. I feel the need to say it to let you all know that I am *done* with the immature idiocy. I've grown, I've changed, I'm not the petulant child you all remember.

I've had my fill, I'm just here to have a good time like everyone else nowadays. Sans drama.

EDIT: I know this post seems a bit off-topic there towards the end, but it seemed as good a place as any to say what I needed to say, but my apologies if I've derailed the discussion.

Make love, not Warcraft...teehee...maybe the funniest South Park episode EVER.