Wow, this sure seems to be a topic that brings out a lot of anger. It would probably be best if we all addressed this topic as it stands, giving our points of view, and not let the emotional part of the discussion get out of hand. We can't expect every player to agree with every other player, and logically then we can't expect every player to agree with every imm decision. I think Dalvyn's list sums up the imm position rather well. Giving logical reasons to deviate from that position might result in a tweak of the admins view of things. However, every tweak that makes one person/group happy will likely upset another person/group. It is all about balance and I think we have a good balance in this area. Let's face it, the people with the IC power (FMs on the player side) will face criticism for their running of their faiths. We also should note that people want to do what they choose and don't like getting caught IC with their hands in the cookie jar by those who have the power to slap those hands. Accordingly, I find the following two statements to be contradictory:
Selveem:
Characters are just as free to make their own decisions.
Further, I don't believe 'grey areas' should be cause for 'IC punishment' unless /specifically/ stated in the God's helpfile as a 'house rule.'
Please remember that FMs and Imms are characters too. I don't believe that it is correct to allow a player to make their own IC decision while simultaneously declaring that other players (e.g. FMs) should not be allowed to make their own IC decisions. Why restrict the rp of one group of PCs and not another? Basically, taken together, those two statements say that characters are free to make their own decisions, unless you are one of the characters who makes decisions enacting IC punishment. It is one thing to say that everyone should be allowed to rp their characters as they see fit and live with the IC consequences that come from other players rping their characters as they see fit. It is another to say that everyone should be allowed to rp their characters as they see fit but that FM characters and imm characters should not be afforded the same privilege.
I agree with the comments that there will be differences within faith. There should be, it makes things lively. However, I don't agree with the "you follow X god the way you want and I'll follow the deity the way I want because I disagree with what you say is dogma." Sure, that's fine if we are talking about two initiates, but if the statement is made by an initiate to a FM, the FM has more power. His/her job is, afterall, to MANAGE the faith. In FK, all players are equal, all CHARACTERS are not.
Just because you may not be privy to the details of the RP does not mean they are acting OOC or buddy-buddy because of their OOC relationship.
You are correct, such situations do not have to mean that there are OOC shinnanegans going on. However, the reverse is also true and people are fooling themselves if they believe it does not happen or that it only happens in the rarest of times. My question though is with the "just because you may not be privy to the details" part. Why isn't the imm of the faithful character aware? Why isn't the FM aware? Why not be proactive? If you plan on being involved in an rp that could be perceived as questionable with your faith, inform the faith manager or send an e-mail to applications letting the imms know what is going on. Then, if it is observed, you are covered. A caveat here though, we imms hear many IC justifications for ooc things. It is possible to explain away anything with "but that's what my character would do." If involving yourself in any kind of thing like this, we would expect a much higher degree of explanation.
Finally, much of this discussion has been on faith matters. Granted, race and faith in FK/FR are very intermixed, but race is huge. Some races have more latitude. Humans can usually be involved in most any rp from a race persepctive: human-dwarven, human-elven, human-drow, human-orc etc. But many races despise each other and would not associate unless there were very very mitigating factors involved. Elves and Orcs hanging out together? No WAY, unless one of them was actually hanging! It doesn't even matter if the elf is evil, it's a race thing. Drow and Orcs? Likely not either, but I can see more of a case for it IF THE CIRCUMSTANCES are right. And so on.
So, let's keep the vitriol down and just deal with the issues.
**Any caps used in this post are purely for emphasis, not yelling at anyone.
