Training and Practicing Spells

Adabelle · Post by **Adabelle** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:02 pm

What is the highest you can practice a spell to if it is outside of your wizard guild.

For example if I am an Abjurer what is the highest I can ever get my Magic Missile spell to?

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:50 am

This is dependent on the level of the spell, I don't recall the exact breaks, but the higher level the spell, the lower the skill level cap. I believe for a specialist wizard the out of school caps go as low as apprentice for a 9th level spell. Of course, you can grandmaster any spell in your school regardless of level.

Mages skill level caps aren't as low as specialist wizards, BUT, they have no school of speciality, thus cannot grandmaster any school at all.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:08 am

I think it would be nice to know the caps. Mainly so people don't needlessly train a skill, wondering why it never raises.

Also, as a side note, I don't think that cleric spells have a cap. Is that correct?

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:36 am

Yeah, it would be nice to know the caps on the different levels. I don't see what harm it could do in telling us, plus I think it gives us (the players) a better understanding of the benefits and drawbacks of creating a specialist as opposed to a generalist.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 am

1. Check "help skill level" in game.

2. Real skill level actually goes from 0 (unknown) up to 25 (grandmaster)

3. Know that each "skill level" name (except unknown and grandmaster) actually cover 3 values. So, the first name (is it inept?) covers the values from 1 up to 3; the second, from 4 up to 6; and so on.

4. You can train you level 1 spells up to 25 (grandmaster); your 2nd level spells up to 24; your 3rd level spells up to 23; and so on (if I remember correctly).

5. Convert those values into names.

Adabelle · Post by **Adabelle** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:17 pm

Does this mean that regardless of school I can train level 1-3 spells to GM through use. Level 4-6 to Master. Ect.

As an Abjurer can I train ALL Abjuration spells to GM or does my school have no effect on my spell training cap.

PS: As a note all reference to training means use NOT through a teacher. I understand that the caps a teacher can train to is set by each mob.

Duranamir · Post by **Duranamir** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:21 pm

So if i have this right...

If you are a specilalist wizard you can train yours specialist spells up to the following levels (using numbers)

1st 25 = GM
2nd 24 = Master
3rd 23 = Master
4th 22 = Master (i guess)
5th 21 = Expert
6th 20 = Expert
7th 19 = Expert
8th 18 = Adept
9th 17 = Adpet

From what has been said previously then a mage can train all spells to one level less than a specialist i.e

1st 24 = Master
2nd 23 = Master
3rd 22 = Master
4th 21 = Expert
5th 20 = Expert
6th 19 = Expert
7th 18 = Adept
8th 17 = Adept
9th 16 = Adept

And a specialist out of field 2 levels less than in field

1st 23 = Master
2nd 22 = Master
3rd 21 = Expert
4th 20 = Expert
5th 19 = Expert
6th 18 = Adept
7th 17 = Adept
8th 16 = Adept
9th 15 = Journeyman

These raises several questions and issues.....

1. No on will ever be able to teach anyone more than a level one spell !

2. And if i can ask why should a specialist not be able to GM the level 9 spell of his school ?. As far as i know skill are not capped ? i have certainly heard of characters with GM in second and third attack for example.

Duranamir

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:27 pm

To be very blunt, I think that being unable to grandmaster spells that are within your sphere is a bit silly.

When you choose a specialist, you give up 2 _full schools_. Schools that have powerful or very useful spells. I feel that is sufficient 'punishment.' Instead of making Mages unable to GM spells, I think they should just not get bonuses to any schools caster level, damage, etc...

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:40 pm

No, from what has been said, I think Duranamir is wrong.

A necromancer can train all necromancer spells up to GM, but all other spells will use the first list he mentioned.

Non-specialists (mages) will use the first list for all spells, or maybe the second.

From what I can guess. No need to jump to conclusions so fast.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:38 pm

From my testing, here is what I get...

For mages
Max skill = 25 - Level
Level 1: 24 (Master)
Level 2: 23 (Master)
Level 3: 22 (Master)
Level 4: 21 (Expert)
Level 5: 20 (Expert)
Level 6: 19 (Expert)
Level 7: 18 (Adept)
Level 8: 17 (Adept)
Level 9: 16 (Adept)

For specialists, spells out of guilds
Max skill = 20 - Level
Level 1: 19 (Expert)
Level 2: 18 (Adept)
Level 3: 17 (Adept)
Level 4: 16 (Adept)
Level 5: 15 (Journeyman)
Level 6: 14 (Journeyman)
Level 7: 13 (Journeyman)
Level 8: 12 (Apprentice)
Level 9: 11 (Apprentice)

Those seem actually quite low ... I would think it might be better to use 25 - Level (just like mages): after all, specialists already get penalized by being totally unable (= skill level restricted to 0) to learn spells from their opposed schools.

Duranamir wrote:These raises several questions and issues.....

1. No on will ever be able to teach anyone more than a level one spell !

The requirement to be grandmaster before you can teach should be removed. Hopefully, in the new teach system, you will be able to teach much sooner.

You would have something like this (this is an old graphic, from one of the proposals for teach, the exact values don't matter as much as the shape of the "curves").

Where the x-axis is the skilllevel of the master and the y-axis is the maximum skill level that the master can teach. Consider the green line for example: the master only needs to be Adept to teach (but, at Adept, he can only teach his students up to Inept) ... and the higher the master's skill level is, the better he can teach his students.

2. And if i can ask why should a specialist not be able to GM the level 9 spell of his school ?. As far as i know skill are not capped ? i have certainly heard of characters with GM in second and third attack for example.

You can GM all the spells that belong to your school I think, can't you?

Duranamir · Post by **Duranamir** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:48 pm

After doing some more of my own testing my levels come out at the same as yours Dalvyn. The one question left is whether definetivley a specialist can GM all spells in his school ?

I love the ideas fot the teach system, can we have it last week

, i really think it will be great for RP above all as it will give the more experienced mages a method of actually passing on some of there spells to there apprentices.

Duranamir (who has managed to teach his apprentice one spell !)

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:59 pm

Dalvyn wrote:You can GM all the spells that belong to your school I think, can't you?

I would have thought you could. I only know of one specialist that has gotten a spell of his school to master, so don't know for certain if he can reach GM. Might want to check him out to see if his skill is still raising.

Hrosskell · Post by **Hrosskell** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:18 pm

I'm almost certain this has been covered broadly on many topics. Is it possible to make a thread about teach, and discuss its implementation or new possibilities? From a character who is close to being able to teach (if I could find that cursed teacher feat, he could [but don't tell me, that's illegal]), I'd like to know exactly how it's going to work and how we should use it - just because Hrosskell's getting to the point in his life where it'd be easier to spawn roleplay from teaching people how to fight than to actually go and fight someone.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:58 pm

Any of those charts the same for priests or are they under different rulesets?

Leohand · Post by **Leohand** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:22 pm

As near as I can tell, you need to be Master to teach any languages, but then only with the teacher feat. I think that's the same with other things. You need to be master then have the teacher feat. I have heard that you can train trades at lower levels, but I don't know that for certain. I only have appraise, and that's not a very high skill level, still being amatuer.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:30 pm

If you are a specialist mage, you can GM any spell in your school, regardless of level, as I said previously.

Priests are under a totally different set of rules, not subject to level caps on their base spells, because clerics do not have schools. They get domains, based on their deity. The domain spells are automatically known at a fixed level, and do not improve, no matter how many times you cast them.

Then there are the druids, who are not subject to EITHER rule set above. They have their own set of spell rules, which includes full access and full potential on their entire list of... what is in my opinion, presently... an anemic collection of spells and abilities, compared to the other two primary casters.

And personally, yes, I think that the level caps for a specialist should be on-par with a mage, you already get the tradeoff by giving up two schools of spells, and the ability to level yourself up to GM on your school spells doesn't seem to me to be quite equitable to the tradeoff.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:20 pm

Kregor wrote:Then there are the druids, who are not subject to EITHER rule set above. They have their own set of spell rules, which includes full access and full potential on their entire list of... what is in my opinion, presently... an anemic collection of spells and abilities, compared to the other two primary casters.

Thank you!

EDIT: Oh, also, guys, I think you are missing another benefit that specialist wizards get. NINE extra spell slots. I mean... that's better than any magical item I can think of.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:18 pm

Is the domain skill level a flat number or does it vary by spell level like master-1st level, inept-9th level?

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

I'm almost certain this has been covered broadly on many topics. Is it possible to make a thread about teach, and discuss its implementation or new possibilities? From a character who is close to being able to teach (if I could find that cursed teacher feat, he could [but don't tell me, that's illegal]), I'd like to know exactly how it's going to work and how we should use it

Nope. It hasn't been finalized yet. The Staff (teams of players and imms) is working on this project and when the system is close to implementation the specifics will be posted for everyone to see. If we post our incomplete information at this time it will just muck everything up.

Adabelle · Post by **Adabelle** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:53 pm

Since there is no school specialized on Divination spell should everyone be able to GM them in the new spell leveling system?