Overhaul of the "Group" system

[Aegir]

I'm not sure exactly how the group code works currently, but its never seemed to work the way its described. ranks seem to have little real effect on who gets attacked (if it does, its small), and still comes down to having the front rank manually rescue someone if they're attacked.

Since there seems to be a move towards 3.5 rules, what I'd like to see is the three ranks act as barriers to the ones behind them, either by coding in rescue attempts by the front rank or simply making the middle and back ranks unreachable unless you're big enough to attack over them (large can reach the middle, huge or bigger can get to the back).

Monsters that come to you (as opposed to you to them) should be treated as surprise attackers, so they can get to the other ranks, but when you walk in on a mob and engage combat, it seems extremely wonky that they can do what amounts to walking right past the first two ranks and hit the squishy caster on the back rank.

The spell system seems to work well with groups, allowing area spells to miss anyone in your group, so thats certainly a good thing, but aside from this, there just doesn't seem to be much that encourages grouping, aside from the obvious "strength in numbers", and the small increase in overall XP thats given. Maybe design quests to be more group-oriented? combats involving multiple mobs that makes it prohibitive to go in solo, certain quests that give rewards more geared towards a group (magic item/primary quest reward for the leader, plus, for example, a horde of valuable components or treasures for the rest of the group to split), and perhaps even allow these quests to be re-doable, though without the magic items (just the treasure items). This would have the added benefit of allowing components to be acquired in places other than select PC stores, which is always a good thing.

[Velius]

I like the idea Aegir.

Would it be a good idea to bring wisdom into the ranks though?

From the wis helpfile: Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one's surroundings.

For when those "surprise encounters" come, if the Meatshield up in front has high Wisdom he may be able to see the up-coming attack, thus making the surprise less surprising.

Wisdom would allow the Meatshield a better view over the battlefield, allowing him to see the coming attack.

[Tavik]

Brilliant idea! Might be good to get some clarification on what exactly the formations do though. I do agree that moving to the middle rank seems to do nothing as far as defense goes. Even the back rank gets attacked, but they get limited to ranged attacks only, which brings up the question: "Why bother ranking?" Maybe there is an advantage to it, but I can't see it so, could someone who knows please explain what benefit, if any, there is to forming the different ranks?

As for your suggestion Velius, I'm not going to oppose it, but I'm getting the feeling that we (we as a general term not you specifically Velius) are going to a little overboard on the wis/cha being dump stats thing. Some stats are just more important to different classes than others. While I'm not advocating dropping all stats that don't apply to you, I don't think it's a particularly good idea to start making it necessary to have an even stat spread. Meatshields tend to need a high str to be effective. It doesn't need to be maxed out, but I don't think they should have to limit their str more by needing other stats more. There's already quite a bit to take into account (int=training rate, cha=XP gain, dex=dodge, con=HP). What I would suggest is a feat, that can be taken multiple times that would work just like you suggested. Again, I'm not against your idea or trying to shoot it down, just trying to point out a few considerations.

[Cret]

I do agree that moving to the middle rank seems to do nothing as far as defense goes.


Even the back rank gets attacked, but they get limited to ranged attacks only, which brings up the question: "Why bother ranking?" Maybe there is an advantage to it, but I can't see it so, could someone who knows please explain what benefit, if any, there is to forming the different ranks?

If the back rank does managed to get attack. The middle rank is able to support with melee. A more versatile mid ranked person is needed.

As to why form ranks..
Point Blank Shot Feat
=====================
With this feat you are skilled at making well-placed shots with ranged
weapons at close range. You must have this feat and combatmode +ranged
turned on in order for your missile weapons to be used as a missile
weapon in melee combat.

Code reasons... same room is pointblank, right?

Also.. when I group with people I dont realy care for ICly.. i move BEHIND them with an obvious move.. as if to say.. You die first.. ill loot your body when I come back at a safer time.

[Selveem]

I would completely endorse grouping being made more helpful. To be quite honest, there have been times I've been helping people and I just plain decided not to join the group so as not to be cutting into the exp as much - doesn't seem to help either way. And being grouped has no obvious benefit aside from not allowing the wizards to strike at the attackers in front (that can attack them anyhow) with melee. I think most people have found grouping annoying for anything other than spamming AoEs. I'd like to see this fixed.

[Velius]

What I would suggest is a feat, that can be taken multiple times that would work just like you suggested. Again, I'm not against your idea or trying to shoot it down, just trying to point out a few considerations.

*smote shakes his fist in the air then yells "Meet me in the Fields o' Triumph!"*
JK, its all good