levels below ten

[Mele]

Let's be honest here. The only reason one might want to have access to an OOC list with those is to reduce the need for interaction with others. If this is a desired goal, then perhaps another game is better suited.

(Not trying to be offensive here, please bear with me: )

Dalvyn, that may not be the only reason. Perhaps that is the first idea that comes to your mind. Many people, when new, just want trainers to 'get by' so that they don't die to every single bandit they encounter.

Sorry, those skills to "get by" are trained right in the newbie temple. Cure light, aid, kick, punch, stats, so on. Right there nice and easy to get. Any other skills are not to "get by" they are to excel.

Why is this thread being so sidetracked into lag? It's a -problem- that it takes nearly 60 hours to become level 10 with the risks you face at a low level. It's not a -problem- that it's aggrivating it takes so long to walk somewhere, and that it does is nearly irrelivant to the time sink levels 1-10 has become.

[Lathander]

If you need a lots of movement points in the hills, then your warrior will spend more time with sleeping than walking, and he will avoid hills for sure.

I have no problem with a solo warrior avoiding the hills because he doesn't want to deal with the lag. That same warrior can buy a mount and use it, do a quest and gain a flying mount, group with a ranger/druid to reduce the lag, group or petition other players who use flying/levitating spells.

I agree, if we want a lag/movement discussion, let's start a new one. Frankly, I don't think we need a lag one. Lag is fine and well proportioned. Full movement points should be available from day one.

On the issue of the time it takes to gt to L10, I think the issue boils down to a couple of solutions.
1. Make it easier to get those levels faster.
or
2. Make it more things (quests, areas, etc.) available to PCs between levels 5-10.

[Selveem]

Thanks Lathander,

You're, of course, correct.

I do believe the lag is an issue, but certainly not the basis of this thread.

Personally, out of your two suggestions if I had to choose... I'd choose both. Make it a LITTLE easier (and change the 'level' command to show exact percentage like it used to; it's far more satisfying) AND add more things for lower level characters to do.

I don't mind being low level, except for not feeling useful (especially to higher level characters). More quests are always fun, but perhaps add more content for character development, too. I would also suggest giving builders access to exp per level information (how much exp does it take to get from level 12 to 13) so they can gauge bonuses in exp for quest turn-ins appropriately.

[Nysan]

Lag/movement: Move to a new thread.

Leveling: Increase exp gained at the higher points; levels 6-9, from the higher end mobs in the newbie temples.

Also add in a few easy to follow quests in and around the newbie areas to grant exp jumps, some basic gear, and teach more about the general areas such as 'take this package to the nearby shop' type quests that teach locations of nearby basic 'important' buildings and make the last leg of the to-10 grind more than simply kill dummy. Though I mostly suggest this in the newbie newbie areas, the experienced areas like drow, orc, ect newbie areas do not need 'where things are' helper quests more than easier exp gains. Anyone taking the advanced races should expect alot of self discovery and trial/error work but newbies areas like Waterdeep should be 'how-to' friendly for the new folks.

[Dalvyn]

Can we agree to first try, in a first time, to just increase the movement amount? And perhaps work no some low-level quest areas.

I believe that will change a lot and that increasing the experience gain might not be necessary afterwards.

Consider this:

- If you have more move points, you can travel more. Quests like Express Deliveries become possible and more fun (because you don't have to sleep every 4 or 5 rooms).

- If you have more move points, making a trip to reach a low-level quest area is easier and possible (for the same reason as above).

- If you have more areas with low/no combat and mostly some practical puzzles (think something like the Kobold Tower) that yields experience, you do not need to grind that much.

- If you have small production processes (e.g., the precision forge) that yields small amount of experience, the need to grind is reduced as well.

- (here your constructive idea)

[Aveline]

First off I just have to say that I have one character that I enjoy very much that is under level ten. I would love to play her more but I get so frustrated when I have to sit and kill dummies for hours. There are very few quests that you have access to when you are under level 10..not only because they are restricted because of your level, but being low level you might not be capable of gathering the coin to do the quest, or it would be more trouble that it was worth to even try to walk across town to complete it. I know an increase in movement would help a lot. But now I tend to only log her when I see that there are other low level people on the who list. Then I can go into the temple and we can all bash dummies together..that makes it a little more bearable. I would also very much like to see the experience levels being changed back into percent values or make it to where you can see both. I agree that it is disheartening to spend so much time killing those dummies and the wording when you type 'level' has not changed. But atleast if you saw that your % had jumped by even one percent you would know there had been SOME progress.

One of the things I suggest is more quests that are for under level ten characters specifically. I've noticed some complaints about people wishing they could know their way around better..why not introduce more quests designed to help people learn their way around their hometowns? People new to the game should be introduced to the rp aspect of this mud early, have a quest in the early stages that requires that they go out and meet people..form a group. All of these quests can give experience to the characters. I think it is inevitable that you will have to grind a bit to get out of those first ten levels, but perhaps add some quests or something that will give purpose to the grinding other than 'have to get to that next level so I can get out of this temple'. There are a few areas that are safe for low levels to go to that quests could be added. I think people would be less apt to complain about the grinding requirement if they were doing it other than for the sake of leveling up. I know I'm talking about adding all these quests, and I know it takes people to come up with the ideas for them. I'm not really all that good at such things but I could try to come up with something if I was needed. I think giving those low level characters something to do would help a lot.

Also I'm going to suggest that all the higher level characters get involved. You see a new character that is obviously new to the game...scoop them up and take them on a tour of the city...show them points of interest. Give them a reason to come out and interact even at the early levels. If they rp well, give them a little boost with a reward. Every little bit helps. Pay them to go off on small jobs for you. New characters have a very hard time with money. It can take hours to collect enough coin from the dummies to buy anything substantial. This could be another way to add a bit of purpose to the grinding, I have a character that pays new characters to gather components for her from the sewers. I had someone do this for me and it made me feel like there was actually some point to me spending my time fighting gross things for hours and searching for those particular items. Remember that all of us were in those levels once and it is frustrating and it is tough. There is a lot that other characters can do to help alleviate the frustration. I know it's not in every character's rp to do so..but even those evil characters might need some unknown little twerp that no one really knows yet to go run an errand or two.

Well I'm not sure if I really said anything new and I think I've started to ramble so I'll go to bed.

[Dalvyn]

... Pay them to go off on small jobs for you. New characters have a very hard time with money. It can take hours to collect enough coin from the dummies to buy anything substantial. This could be another way to add a bit of purpose to the grinding, I have a character that pays new characters to gather components for her from the sewers. I had someone do this for me and it made me feel like there was actually some point to me spending my time fighting gross things for hours and searching for those particular items.

I would very much like to find ideas to incite such interactions. So, ideas that would help are welcome.

The precision forge was introduced in the game for that purpose: give low-level PCs something that they can do that will be useful to even higher level PCs.

[Aegir]

One idea would be to change the reward command, or at least add a lesser version of it.

The current reward gives a small XP bump along with a kismet bump, but at the cost of the person giving it, and can only be done once/day. What if there were another command that allowed PCs to give their own XP to another, in the form of, say, percentiles needed for their next level?

Example: Aegir sends a Zhentil Keep newbie on a journey to Waterdeep to retrieve for him some Jacinth Gems. Newbie gets back, and Aegir hits a command that gives him a bump of 20% towards his next level, at an XP cost to himself (but not limited by times per day).

Obviously this would need logging just like reward, or the new teaching system, but it could easily be used to make interaction more beneficial, the grind less of a requirement for advancement, and would tip the scale at least a little towards the more enjoyable aspects of the game.

An additional idea to sort of combine ideas from this thread (newbie temple giving directions to trainers in the city, and building low-level quests): why not create gopher quests for low-level characters that, coincidentally or not, sends the PCs to various trainers around town. The quests give a bit of coin, bit of XP, and gives the PC an IC way of learning the location of these trainers.

[Hviti]

The precision forge was introduced in the game for that purpose: give low-level PCs something that they can do that will be useful to even higher level PCs.

The precision forge is an excellent idea; however, it's in Tantras. I'm not even sure many new characters know it exists - let alone are able to access it with the current movement issues.

Edit: Also, I believe it requires metal or ores, which are hard for newer characters to acquire (there are only limited amounts of these around and new characters may not meet PCs who have ores).

[Dalvyn]

The precision forge is an excellent idea; however, it's in Tantras. I'm not even sure many new characters know it exists - let alone are able to access it with the current movement issues.

Is it?

Last time I checked, there was one in Waterdeep, and one in Tantras (the closest temple of Gond to Zhentil Keep).

Example: Aegir sends a Zhentil Keep newbie on a journey to Waterdeep to retrieve for him some Jacinth Gems. Newbie gets back, and Aegir hits a command that gives him a bump of 20% towards his next level, at an XP cost to himself (but not limited by times per day).

Sounds like a good idea in the making.

[Vibius]

Example: Aegir sends a Zhentil Keep newbie on a journey to Waterdeep to retrieve for him some Jacinth Gems. Newbie gets back, and Aegir hits a command that gives him a bump of 20% towards his next level, at an XP cost to himself (but not limited by times per day).

Limit it so only characters with a level less than ten can be rewarded this way and it would be a brilliant idea, because it is supposed that once a character is enough experienced he don't longer becomes more experienced by being an errand boy.

Perhaps could be built as well small mini-areas a bit more challenging than the newbie areas which had one or two mini-quests each one.

These small areas would have mobs that upon being killed by a low-level character did drop components that could be sold to players at a lightly better price than in shops.

[Aegir]

Limit it so only characters with a level less than ten can be rewarded this way and it would be a brilliant idea, because it is supposed that once a character is enough experienced he don't longer becomes more experienced by being an errand boy.

I'd limit it to less than 15-20, but yes, thats the general idea.

[Nedylene]

limit to less then 20

[Glim]

Why not allow the reward command to give a small amount of xp as well as kismet? Not something that a level 30 or 40 could use, but maybe something that a lvl 5-10 could use to bump them up 25% or something.

Any different?

[Aegir]

Why not allow the reward command to give a small amount of xp as well as kismet? Not something that a level 30 or 40 could use, but maybe something that a lvl 5-10 could use to bump them up 25% or something.

Any different?

Sorta.

1) Reward already gives XP, to my knowledge.

2) It can only be used once/day.

The usage limit does limit its value somewhat for something like this.

[Glim]

1) Reward already gives XP, to my knowledge.

Does it? I have never noticed nor did I think it did. But then, this would depend upon how much xp it gave, wouldn't it? If it already can give enough xp to be helpful to lowbies, it's a moot point.

2) It can only be used once/day.

The usage limit does limit its value somewhat for something like this.

I think it could be more easily abused if it was given unlimited uses. I know that is not what you are saying.

[Aegir]

I think it could be more easily abused if it was given unlimited uses.

Well, obviously something like this would need logging to track abusers, but anything that allows someone to level via RPing is a good thing, and thus I think worth the relatively small risk for abuse.

[Glim]

Might be a better solution than logging. Perhaps unlimited uses of the reward command, but you cannot reward the same person more than once a day would be better.

[Lathander]

The thread's main concern seems to deal with level 1-10, or even more specifically, levels 5-10.

I like the idea proposed but would limit to L10 (allowed to grant the xp until the player reaches 11). I would also put a cap on the amount so that higher level players don't abuse the command and jump their OOC friends forward.

Or, allow the use of the reward command 3x/day when rewarding those below L11.

[Velius]

3x a day sounds good. I think that reward and whatever this is going to be called should be different. I would love to give the apprentice the XP bonus but unfortunately he'd have to give me 1000 plat to have me give up the kismet

On a side-note: Though this idea is GREAT, I still think that levels 1-10 should be changed a bit though. It shouldn't take how many hours it takes to hit level 10.