New armour/combat code - questions, comments and bugs

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:16 pm

Here's a good place to post all your questions, comments, and bugs about the new system.

If you don't understand something, do not hesitate to ask. That will help our friendly help file writers create useful help files.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:44 pm

It'd be nice to have a 'help defense rating' or something in 'help defense' because it's hard to tell if 'adequate' is better than 'above average' or even below 'average.'

Also, a link between 'defence' command and 'defense' - for people who are used to typing it that way.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:04 pm

I've noticed some characters with 'inferior' armors (AKA, they aren't even magical,) are still superior AC than I have on Selveem. These creatures are the same size with the same load. Also, mobs seem to be getting more dodges in. I don't know if that's intentional. I will show a log:

<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mvA wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem ducks under your slashing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
Your pierce tears a gaping wound into a wooden training golem's right arm.
a wooden training golem has a few small cuts.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
You weave out of the way of a wooden training golem's punch.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
You weave out of the way of a wooden training golem's punch.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem ducks under your slashing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
A wooden training golem dodges your piercing attack.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 98%hp 99%mv
Your pierce nearly bisects a wooden training golem's right leg.
a wooden training golem has several minor wounds.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:13 pm

I dared to try a mithril golem. Normally, I'd take about 10%-20% damage.. depending on if they got bash off.
I started at over 95% health.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 37%hp 100%mv
Your pierce tears open a mithril training golem's right arm.
A mithril training golem is DEAD!
You hear a mithril training golem's death cry.
<{{{{{{{{{{{{{<o>|xxxxxxo\ 37%hp 100%mv

Keep in mind, the golem didn't bash me the entire duration of that fight (which I found odd, but I would have had to flee otherwise).

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:28 pm

The system has been completely revisited to better fit the d20 rules. Some mobs will become harder, other will be weaker.

There is no "uber armour" anymore. A heavy armour might be very good for some low-Dex character, while a lighter armour might be better for a high-Dex character.

It's an opportunity to revisit the mobs, the areas, as well as the objects (magical or not) and find what's best for your character from the scratch.

Adabelle · Post by **Adabelle** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:31 pm

Does the Defence command show magical bonuses?

My Wizard cast a few physically defensive spells and they did not seem to have an effect on the values shown using the defence command.

Leohand · Post by **Leohand** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:34 pm

Dalvyn wrote:The system has been completely revisited to better fit the d20 rules. Some mobs will become harder, other will be weaker.

That's what happened!!!!! My drow mage was training on goblins before, then I was gone away for a week, and when I came back, the very first goblin she battled killed her!!!! That means I am back to only kobolds to get to level 10, and they give out close to zero exp. It's so hard to level up a drow mage anymore.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:36 pm

Yes, defence should take magical bonuses into consideration. Note that, according to the other post, some things do not stack.

For example, if you wear a leather armour (which gives a +3 "armour" bonus), casting an "armour" spell (which also gives an "armour" bonus) won't help.

Also, don't let yourself get demoralized by the words that describe your AC (those will get changed). Values currently described as "adequate" or "average" are already quite good.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:38 pm

So it was intentional that magical armors that are very difficult to obtain (some from very deep in UM and part of a series of events necessary to obtain them) have been made less potent than mundane, non-magical equipment?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:40 pm

Other things that can influence your armour class/defence:

- Load

Check your "score" to see what your load currently is. A medium load will cap your Dexterity modifier (meaning that you might not benefit as much from it as you would with a lighter load), and a heavy load is even worse.

- Combatmodes

+power attack means "to-hit" reduced, "damage increased"
+defensive means "to-hit" reduced, "AC increased"

Combatmode +defensive helps improve your AC. And it's even better with the expertise feat! If you are a fighter and thus have a very high to-hit, you can have both of those combatmodes on at all time.

- Estimation

What you get from "defence" is an approximation, it's what your character percieves. If your character is a bit unwise, you might get a very imprecise guess.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:52 pm

Ohhh, so it's possible the characters I'm comparing myself to just don't have high enough wisdom to accurately determine their "defense?"

Does this also mean that all combat encounters are going to take that long? I'm just fighting a mithril golem right now in the Swordspoint Hall. Before, in UM, there were mobs that I had a harder time with.. will those be exponentially hard like the golems? That's scary.

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:25 pm

Got a feeling I know the answer to this, but I have to confirm it: Were saving throws also included in this update?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:39 pm

Nope, saving throws are not included.

We are going to add more things too ... currently, the Dexterity cap (i.e., how much of your Dexterity really influences your AC) is determined only by your load and the type of the armour your wear. We are going to make it so special armours (because they are well crafted or because they are magical in nature) and special material (mithril, elven metal) allow for a higher cap, i.e., do not restrict your Dexterity as much as a normal non-magical armour.

Solaghar · Post by **Solaghar** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:52 pm

Possible Bug...

I am fairly certain that bracers with +AC enchantments are not affecting the whole body in the same way that cloaks, rings, necklaces, etc are. I tried out two bracers which I knew to be +AC and they didn't have any affect whereas other +AC items did.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:54 pm

Upon wearing +ac and +protection. Protection is full body. While +ac is just to that wear location.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:58 pm

Solaghar: you'll need to get a wizard to identify those bracelets (you're talking about bracelets, not bracers, right?). You will most likely see that bracelets offer some "armour" AC, just like a leather or plate armour. Bonuses of the same type do not stack up, but only the best one count. So, if you wear those bracelets along with some physical armour, only the bracelets or the armour will be taken into consideration (the best one).

Tobias: You might want to re-identify those objects. There is no +protection. It's either +armour, +shield, +deflection, or +natural.

Solaghar · Post by **Solaghar** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:15 pm

No, I'm talking about bracers, but I think it's the same in any case, you wear them on your wrists. The question is, if a bracer has a +Armour AC enchantment, that would be pointless if the wrists are not a damageable location. Hence any enchantments upon bracers must be made similar to rings, cloaks, etc... any bracer which has the same enchantment as platemail may as well be made of paper.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:15 pm

Does this change have any effect on item damage? Lower layers more/less likely to be damaged? Material type resisting damage better/worse?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:26 pm

I couldn't answer about damage.

As for bracers, I'd have to check, but I think that their protection extends to either the hands or the arms. I will have to check with Mask.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:57 pm

Dalvyn wrote:I couldn't answer about damage.

As for bracers, I'd have to check, but I think that their protection extends to either the hands or the arms. I will have to check with Mask.

Not sure why, but I get a small sense of pleasure in asking questions you cant answer.