New armour/combat code - questions, comments and bugs

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:03 pm

Oh, got another one inspired by the description thread.

The shield sectioned mentioned overlapping shields canceling each other out. Does this change the effects of shield spells like acidshield and iceshield? Got a character coming up on training such things and sparks the curiosity.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:14 pm

Did damage reduction get implemented too? I seem to be in combat (even with the 100000000000 misses/fight) doing far less damage. Perhaps it's that they're lasting so long that they're regenning before my next strike. I dunno.

Also, um.. Am I going to get my butt handed to me by a wizard with vampiric touch? I mean, if I can't even hit training dummies.. fireshield is gonna suck.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:08 am

I barely got a chance to check it out this morning when it first came in but I do have some small questions.

With items that increase your AC, I understand that now it will only increase the AC in the area it is worn? So rings for instance will increase the ac to your hands. Now, if you are wearing two rings that increase ac will they both give a bonus or will one negate the other? Also if you are wearing two rings and gloves that increase ac will all three stack or will the highest ac modifier be the only one applies? This is a question to for layerable things. A cloak that layers over your armour and provides ac bonus while the armour applies ac bonus as well... etc.

Now also exploring.. to prevent everyone walking out and getting ourselves killed without a proper priest etc to bring us back over and over ... any hints as to what NOONE should attempt to battle without a very large group?

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:31 am

Nedylene wrote:I barely got a chance to check it out this morning when it first came in but I do have some small questions.

With items that increase your AC, I understand that now it will only increase the AC in the area it is worn? So rings for instance will increase the ac to your hands. Now, if you are wearing two rings that increase ac will they both give a bonus or will one negate the other? Also if you are wearing two rings and gloves that increase ac will all three stack or will the highest ac modifier be the only one applies? This is a question to for layerable things. A cloak that layers over your armour and provides ac bonus while the armour applies ac bonus as well... etc.

Now also exploring.. to prevent everyone walking out and getting ourselves killed without a proper priest etc to bring us back over and over ... any hints as to what NOONE should attempt to battle without a very large group?

He covered in his other thread that the highest modifier prevails and the rest is wasted space/decoration. The "Did you know" thread...point 6 or so if I remember right.

The exploring thing, *shrug* I'm leery of sending my low levels against bandits without a few days to see how the code settles.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:48 am

Nysan wrote:Oh, got another one inspired by the description thread.

The shield sectioned mentioned overlapping shields canceling each other out. Does this change the effects of shield spells like acidshield and iceshield? Got a character coming up on training such things and sparks the curiosity.

No, acidshield and iceshield do not work as 'shield'. Actually, those two spells do not affect your AC at all... check the help file

Did damage reduction get implemented too?

No

With items that increase your AC, I understand that now it will only increase the AC in the area it is worn? So rings for instance will increase the ac to your hands. Now, if you are wearing two rings that increase ac will they both give a bonus or will one negate the other? Also if you are wearing two rings and gloves that increase ac will all three stack or will the highest ac modifier be the only one applies? This is a question to for layerable things. A cloak that layers over your armour and provides ac bonus while the armour applies ac bonus as well... etc.

Pieces of armour only give a local bonus. Other objects (rings, medallions, ...) give a general bonus that applies to all locations. Two rings (or any two objects) that give the same kind of bonus to AC won't stack. That means that wearing two identical rings that give a bonus to AC is not useful; one is enough.

For the ring and gloves question, well, it depends on the kind of bonus offered by both. The gloves, as a piece of armour, will give an ARMOUR bonus. The ring will most likely give a DEFLECTION bonus, so they will stack. If the ring gives an ARMOUR bonus (you can identify it to know), then the bonuses won't stack and only the best of the two will matter.

Now also exploring.. to prevent everyone walking out and getting ourselves killed without a proper priest etc to bring us back over and over ... any hints as to what NOONE should attempt to battle without a very large group?

Dragons?

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:57 am

Was thinking as much, regarding elemental shields, but I have seen some odd coding... better safe than sorry.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:38 am

I was certain my character was bugged, but I didn't have any evidence until a LOT of testing.
When I remove everything, with 18 agility, I am rated 'poor' AC in all fields. I had another person with the same agility as me, 18, remove everything and they had 'good' AC.

What do we do in a situation like this?

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:39 am

Selveem wrote:I was certain my character was bugged, but I didn't have any evidence until a LOT of testing.
When I remove everything, with 18 agility, I am rated 'poor' AC in all fields. I had another person with the same agility as me, 18, remove everything and they had 'good' AC.

What do we do in a situation like this?

Stop looking at each other naked and comparing 'ratings'?

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:41 am

Before anyone asks the obvious, we were both standing, we both had no spells on (Well, he did but it was barskin and it only raises by +1 category so doing the math we found his was 'good'), both were only carrying a light load in score.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:43 am

Come on, that was funny!

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:53 am

Class may have something to do with it, Selveem. Also race. And size. And level. And skill level in dodge, maybe?

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:57 am

What about +stat items? Do they stack or does only the most favorable item work? If not, should it be this way?

Leohand · Post by **Leohand** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:59 am

Lathander wrote:What about +stat items? Do they stack or does only the most favorable item work? If not, should it be this way?

No no no no no, say it ain't so!!!! I don't want that, lol. My priestess of Lathander has bas 18 charisma, and 4 items with bonuses up to +6, and I like thinking she has 24 cha, lol

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 am

What about +stat items? Do they stack or does only the most favorable item work? If not, should it be this way?

If we are staying with D&D only the highest would apply.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:26 am

Actually, +stat items DO stack, I believe. The things that do not are the same TYPE of bonus to things that require a dice roll to accomplish and/or overcome. This means:

Armor Class
Attack Rolls
Saving Throws
Saving Throw DC (the number made byt he caster that the save has to beat)
Skill checks

Only the first two were affected so far by this update. When the saves/resists upgrade is brought in, then 3 and 4 will likely apply as well.

No knowledge as to whether we will move to a d20 skill check resolution or not, to know whether 5 will also eventually apply.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:28 am

Jaenoic wrote:Class may have something to do with it, Selveem. Also race. And size. And level. And skill level in dodge, maybe?

We're both humans. Thus, we're also the same size. As for the skill level in dodge, I'm either better than him or equal. I'm GM at dodge. As for his parry skill versus mine? I can't tell you, but Selveem's no slouch. His is at journeyman still though (apparently very hard to gain in).

Edited to include: The person I am comparing myself with is a ranger, who is also level 50. They are also male (if you couldn't tell by my referring to 'him' as such). If the class is the issue, I would think that warrior would far outshine any other class for 'AC bonus' - considering they have no unique skills (aside from Bash, but Clerics get something similar called 'Stun').

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:07 am

Kregor,

So +stat items do not stack in relation to AC but may for other purposes? For instance, if someone wears a +2 dex ring, a +1 dex bracer and a +1 dex medallion, the net result is that the +2 dex ring grants a dex bonus to AC (spedifically dodging) and the bracer and medallion have no affect?

But, for other actions requiring dex, say avoiding a trap, the bonus to dex would be +4?

What about the combat "to hit" bonus for dex? Would those bonuses stack or would only the ring (highest +stat item) apply?

Side note: Dal, if these types of questions are better posed elsewhere, let me know.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:50 am

I was certain my character was bugged, but I didn't have any evidence until a LOT of testing.
When I remove everything, with 18 agility, I am rated 'poor' AC in all fields. I had another person with the same agility as me, 18, remove everything and they had 'good' AC.

On Nedylene, halfelf with acrobatic Dexterity she is as well poor in her defence when naked.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:14 am

Double checked myself, and I correct myself

IF this were proper d20 as far as other applies besides armor, stat bonus items would also not stack. Stat bonuses are all enhancement modifiers, enhancement bonuses to the same stat would not stack.

Presently, that has not changed from before the update though, only armor and AC-modifying applies, that I know of. And that is DIRECT applies. ie, your DEX applies modify your DEX, any DEX bonus you get is an indirect bonus to your hit/AC, so the bonus for your overall AC is whatever the stat bonus for your final DEX score is. Applies for armor, deflection, dodge, etc are direct applies to the AC, so those are the ones that presently do not stack.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:15 am

At least as far as resistances go, I'd prefer that stacking be still kept in. In a tabletop campaign, there is generally access to individual items with +4/+5, + other great amounts of resistance, so stacking is easily abusable. In FK, however, it takes two or three resistance items to get anything that will show an effect in reducing damage. Thus, if only one were to apply at a time, I'm not sure that they'd be "worth" using - especially when one could devote a slot to an AC increasing item instead.