D20 SRD wrote:Material Component
An ointment for the eyes that costs 250 gp and is made from mushroom powder, saffron, and fat.
[SPELL] True Sight.
That's a pretty moot point. The point would be that people with True Sight would see that a person is not in their true form. When was it asked that this also came with the right to point and scream witch?Nedylene wrote:Tandria wrote:I don't really see where that would be unbalancing. It it doesn't tell you who the person is, or how they actually look, what is the problem with that? I think it's actually a really good idea . . . why wouldn't someone be able to notive that you're polymorphed under the spell?
And what if you have polymorphed through a skill or because you are a coded lycanthrope. How would one be able to balance the spell of True Sight to only detect those under POLYMORPH and not the other shapechanging abilities? Technically the druid's ability is not a spell and the lycanthrope's ability is not a spell.
Furthermore, thanks to that glowing magical flag, a polymorphed creature is already nailed. A magical wolf? My ass, obviously that's not a wolf.
If you want to disguise yourself as another person of your race, make a rogue and use disguise. If you're going to use polymorph to change up and hide who you are, it's a magical skill that people of magical ways have always been able to tell, with proper RP and time. If true sight were changed it would add a ton more RP to polymorphing, and that aspect of it. Why are we treating all our wizards like they should be stupid about this?
Beshaba potatoes.
Which is why I think that detect magic is more than plenty to detect when someone is polymorphed. If you are not stupid, then why do you need a flag that clearly states _THISPERSONISPOLYMORPHED_. At least that is my take on things.
"My pain is constant and sharp, and I do not hope for a better world. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to survive."
Thats not entirely true. Certain spells have expensive components, but the vast majority of components have no cost whatsoever. In fact, in d20, simply owning a component pouch means you have unlimited amounts of any component without a listed price, which is about 90% of the components in d20.Vibius wrote:Componentes are quite more expensive in the "official" rules than in FK, for example; stone skin uses diamond dust valued in 250gp and a vial of holy water has a price of 25gp.
Certain spells (True Seeing being one, as well as spells like raise dead and other more powerful spells) have costly components.
Conversely, however, by the time the typical character in d20 games can cast these spells, coming up with the money for these spells is really a breeze. Not so much the case in FK, where we're constantly spending much of our time trying to get back the money we've spent on components, already.
I see no problem at all with bringing true sight closer to the d20 incarnation. It's a high level spell divination spell, which indicates its caster must be a powerful wizard/priest. I see absolutely no reason it should not be able to do the job of a very low level divination spell, in addition to its other, current, effects.
True, it makes the spell more powerful. But frankly, being able to tell if someone is polymorphed is a very small advantage, as it calls on a very specific circumstance. This is even moreso the case since under this idea we still have no way to tell what they really are, just that they are not what they appear to be.
I see no problem at all with bringing true sight closer to the d20 incarnation. It's a high level spell divination spell, which indicates its caster must be a powerful wizard/priest. I see absolutely no reason it should not be able to do the job of a very low level divination spell, in addition to its other, current, effects.
True, it makes the spell more powerful. But frankly, being able to tell if someone is polymorphed is a very small advantage, as it calls on a very specific circumstance. This is even moreso the case since under this idea we still have no way to tell what they really are, just that they are not what they appear to be.
This goes back to the disguise/hide/polymorph/etc discussions we've been through on threads before...
It's really not such a terrible tragedy if True Sight allowed someone to get a flag showing you are polymorphed, as we start moving more and more toward the d20 context.
Why? Because with a high enough SPOT skill roll, a character *without* True Sight could even be able to tell if someone was polymorphed. The d20 rules state that, if it's used as part of a disguise, polymorph is NOT impenetrable, in fact, what it does is add a + to the chance someone has to beat to see through it.
In fact, a high enough spot roll would even allow you to glimpse that someone invisible is in the room.
It is, IMO, a severe problem that some players will take coded benefits to the extreme, not just with polymorph, but with hide, disguise, and other skills. Grandmastering a skill doesn't mean you are immortal with it. You WILL have flaws, you WILL have weaknesses. When you disguise, you did not *become* the person you disguise as. When you polymorph, you still have cues and traits that would give you away as... something else. When you're hidden, you can't manipulate objects in the room and make them float, or poke someone or grab them or tickle them without them seeing, or use the smote command with a quote to work around the code that strips your hide when you use SAY or SAYTO. Most of the limitations should be common sense, or at least common courtesy, but the trend seems to go more on the lines of "If code allows me to do it, then all's fair."
In my thoughts, just having a flag, rather than the affected looker being able to actually see who you are, was a thoughtful compromise. But this means some people's objective for polymorph is no longer a guarantee, that's a bad thing to many. Some spend their time pumping something to GM because the conditioning implies "GM = guarantee". Sort of like when the IM circles used to brim with the "GM dodge, because that means you'll never be hit" lines of advice (Rest in bloody peace, old dodge code). NO check in a random game should ever be a guarantee, for anyone short of a god, just better odds.
Thus, I would be glad to see us move the skill resolution system to a system of roll vs. DC or opposing roll, and bring in mundane skills to thwart things like hiding and disguise... and even polymorph. With the new combat system and spell power upgrades done, It's now my top priority to lobby for.
It's really not such a terrible tragedy if True Sight allowed someone to get a flag showing you are polymorphed, as we start moving more and more toward the d20 context.
Why? Because with a high enough SPOT skill roll, a character *without* True Sight could even be able to tell if someone was polymorphed. The d20 rules state that, if it's used as part of a disguise, polymorph is NOT impenetrable, in fact, what it does is add a + to the chance someone has to beat to see through it.
In fact, a high enough spot roll would even allow you to glimpse that someone invisible is in the room.
It is, IMO, a severe problem that some players will take coded benefits to the extreme, not just with polymorph, but with hide, disguise, and other skills. Grandmastering a skill doesn't mean you are immortal with it. You WILL have flaws, you WILL have weaknesses. When you disguise, you did not *become* the person you disguise as. When you polymorph, you still have cues and traits that would give you away as... something else. When you're hidden, you can't manipulate objects in the room and make them float, or poke someone or grab them or tickle them without them seeing, or use the smote command with a quote to work around the code that strips your hide when you use SAY or SAYTO. Most of the limitations should be common sense, or at least common courtesy, but the trend seems to go more on the lines of "If code allows me to do it, then all's fair."
In my thoughts, just having a flag, rather than the affected looker being able to actually see who you are, was a thoughtful compromise. But this means some people's objective for polymorph is no longer a guarantee, that's a bad thing to many. Some spend their time pumping something to GM because the conditioning implies "GM = guarantee". Sort of like when the IM circles used to brim with the "GM dodge, because that means you'll never be hit" lines of advice (Rest in bloody peace, old dodge code). NO check in a random game should ever be a guarantee, for anyone short of a god, just better odds.
Thus, I would be glad to see us move the skill resolution system to a system of roll vs. DC or opposing roll, and bring in mundane skills to thwart things like hiding and disguise... and even polymorph. With the new combat system and spell power upgrades done, It's now my top priority to lobby for.
"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men."
Kregor - Ranger of Tangled Trees
Rozor - Lady Luck's Duelist
Tygen - Ranger-Bard of Mielikki
Kregor - Ranger of Tangled Trees
Rozor - Lady Luck's Duelist
Tygen - Ranger-Bard of Mielikki
I would love to have spot in rather than just having wizard use true sight to see all rogues rangers or what have you that skulk around. I don't think in 3.5 thier is a spell that ousts hidden people except faerie fog or revealing fog. Although when someone has alot of ranks in thier move silently and hiding or even if they have the ability to hide in plain sight. It would still be unlikely to see them. Even invisiblity and such I am guessing. I think going as true to 3.5 rules as possible would be wonderful. Although we all know it will take some time!
I am but a tree te da lee lee
Infravision.Tobias wrote:I would love to have spot in rather than just having wizard use true sight to see all rogues rangers or what have you that skulk around. I don't think in 3.5 thier is a spell that ousts hidden people except faerie fog or revealing fog. Although when someone has alot of ranks in thier move silently and hiding or even if they have the ability to hide in plain sight. It would still be unlikely to see them. Even invisiblity and such I am guessing. I think going as true to 3.5 rules as possible would be wonderful. Although we all know it will take some time!
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
