Possible Plots to be seen?

[Kirkus]

I think the problems in the past were a problem of restrictions. An account could only have a character in one or the other, in terms of opposed organizations like the Zhents and Harpers. I think we have removed this restriction, which will increase their numbers. But will it guarantee long term world spanning rp is my question.

What if we took Sairaven's idea and expand it a bit. So we give each village a commodity or something for them to trade. This will mean expanding the delivery quests by adding more. But it will also give us something to interact with. For example village A trades beef to Zazzispur until Bob the evil pc, and his friends goes in an coerces and demands and does quests and what not till the city is bent to their will. So now they send that beef to Bob's hometown Calimshan. Suddenly food supplies in Zazzispur are low and the goodie pc's are needed to go and fix the problem. Perhaps this means taking a company of the Zazzispur soldiers along to protect grazing lands and the village at night. Then protecting the caravan on its way to Zazzispur. Perhaps the village needs protection for a few months before the beef is seen in Zazzispur, which means a long term large scale campaign for the goodies. Which would also give the evils something to try and interfere with.

I also really like Dovan's suggestions. Dovan can you suggest some ways to use what your were talking about?

[Travis]

Why don't we, as players, just make things happen?

[Pascus]

Thats what I am saying Travis, we as players could make events happen in the game. As long as its within the range of power our characters can do then everyone should be alright because I don't think the Imms would have a problem with actions as long as the players let the Imms know their intentions.

[Travis]

I don't think they'd care either way.

So what are we waiting for again?

[Harroghty]

I would like to use this thread to mention someone positively in the course of an example supporting the player's ability to influence events (or seem to):

Pascus' character (well, one of them) approached mine with concerns that were very appropriate to his character's story-line and background. He had participated in one quest that his character imagined might have far reaching consequences - ones that might have endangered the safety of Hillsvale. He then contacted my character (the town of Hillsvale is not a "canon" location but it's within Cormyr's borders) who took a serious interest. One thing led to another and then Pascus' character, mine and one more (Lirith) took off on two quests that ultimately included Arenliesel also. In the long-term, it included roleplay with Danten, too.

None of this really changed anything about the game world in terms of hard code but it was, I think, an admirable way to bring larger, in-character concerns into the game and really make a good time for all parties involved. This is Pascus' usual modus operandi and I want to mention that here, but it's also an instructive example of how this idea might play out.

[Glim]

In the long-term, it included roleplay with Danten, too.

I want to thank the player of Harroghty for this. I very much appreciated it and enjoyed the rp.

[Dovan]

I also really like Dovan's suggestions. Dovan can you suggest some ways to use what your were talking about?

Well... I don't wish to go too further into the idea that I have as if this does become implemented in some form or manner, it would not ruin the outcome. None the same...

Let's say there is a certain village / area that has rival factions, they don't even have to be like a Zeth / Harper deal. To make it more simple an idea here, let's say for sake of ease Goblin vs Elf. Enter PC Human.

PC Human thinks "Hey... seems there's a war of some sort going on here. Wonder what's going on here". PC Human chooses sides and starts a war march from one camp. How the PC from there chooses to assist their choosen side remains up to them.

If the attacking side wins, both camps become let's say Goblin. Now perhaps that the Goblins have full control of the area, special items become available for sale (account for controlling all of trade traffic).

But perhaps someone would rather see the Elves in control. Maybe hidden somewhere is a cave in which to start an elven march on the Goblin camp. Now to do this though, you must have never helped the goblins out whatsoever before. If you have, they will never speak to you, EVER. Perhaps a permenant flag attached to the PC once they've completed one side of the quest before or not. That way you can not change your mind later because you think maybe someone has better items. Stand by your choices people!

If someone from the build team or what not wants to pick my brain apart more or would like me to right a more indepth description, I'll be glad to do so. I'm not much of a coder (odd since I have an IT degree) but I reckon I can put together a descent room(s) description with a little time.

*shrug*

Also feel free to edit this post if you decide my idea is worth playing around with at some point to save some of the surprise (I know ya'll got a lot more important things to attend to than this single idea).

[Travis]

Let's make our own wars with player characters and no code.
Who wants to play evil with me?

[Pascus]

That is what I was talking about Harroghty, but I didn't want to bring up any IC stuff. I think the Imms need to take note of this and we as players should be able to change the atmosphere of the game through this sort of RP, instead it was sorta just lingering out there. I am a firm believer that we as players have the ability to do whatever we want within our power reach, some have stronger reaches than others but this reach could change the game and the world around. I encourage all of you to look at the game in a aspect that can be changed start rp'ing your change and perhaps if enough people start working for something it will get noticed. I myself may not be able to do it, but I will motivate other players this is what brings the great roleplay this game has been known for!

[Raona]

I can only speak from personal experience, but I believe the Imms do watch, far more than you might think...and they do, in the fullness of time, take into consideration what your character has done in deciding how subsequent events unfold. But it tends to be subtle, and subject to their having the time and energy for it. Great RP tends to energize them, too! So...keep up the good work, but do it for its own sake - it's fun!

I'll add that it makes a HUGE difference if these things are documented - ideally IC. Please take a look at the Kingdom's Journal and consider submitting something for it yourself. It's work, but it lets other's know what's happened, and react.

[Travis]

Some things your character doesn't want the every citizen to know, because it could result in them being type:dead

[Raona]

True enough, true enough. Travis is quite right - my comment above only applies to some situations.

[Travis]

So what about those plots that the Imms don't get to see all of and that really can't be documented IC, or when false information is leaked the public to make people think something that's not?

[Peverell]

I'll add that it makes a HUGE difference if these things are documented - ideally IC. Please take a look at the Kingdom's Journal and consider submitting something for it yourself. It's work, but it lets other's know what's happened, and react.

I agree, and will add that using the message posts are good too... Public notices really catch my interest, and I've noticed that the Cyricists are good at using the message posts for their propaganda

And - not meaning to derail the thread - but I have been thinking recently about the possibility of using tells/otells to draw in other characters to player-initiated RPs. For example - and this is all entirely hypothetical - I notice some Cyrisists on the who list, so I take my chaotic Mystran into Zhentil Keep to drop leaflets saying "Cyric is a Doo Doo Head." I then send them all otells saying "You hear a rumour that anti-Cyric sentiments are being spread in the Keep." The Cyricists rush over, confront me, conflict ensues.

Or I see there are quite a few elves and rangers online, so I send my Malarite into Ardeep to beat up fluffy bunny rabbits and send an otell saying "You sense an evil presence in Ardeep Forest" to one of them. They round up a posse and come to investigate.

Would this kind of thing be frowned upon as sharing IC information OOCly? Or would it be welcomed as a way of involving more players in your RP?

(Again, I must point out those two examples were entirely hypothetical and just the first thing that came to my head...)

[Oghma]

Any events that reflect roleplay should be accomplished in character. The only exception I can think of is setting up times for players to come and roleplay the event and the announcement that highlights the event in the forum. Anything else should be learned through ic means.

While we are on the topic of plots, I have a few pet peeves with certain kinds. I am more a by the code person, meaning I believe that certain roleplays should not be initiated without imm approval or without special rp applications. They are:

Non coded illness spells or 'Mysterious illnesses': Characters that suddenly start elaborate role plays of a mysterious ailment with no coded reasons like curse spells or poisonings or bleedings etc, are in my opinion just mugging for drama. This kind of roleplay would need to be done in such a way that all those involved get an equal part. Having a sickness or trauma that resists all forms of incredibly powerful healing methods is very unlikely. If the code says that such and such cast is the most powerful spell/prayer more than likely it will cure an ailment or great sickness unless told otherwise. The important thing to remember is to present a solution that is manageable and shared, not just about a singular player, but about everyone involved. Otherwise it gets quite boring and dramatic quickly. I personally detest these enough to cause rp'd unstoppable illnesses to persist into coded curses and illnesses depending on the rp if it is called for.

Final death rp's. I recommend applying before you do this kind of roleplay. The reasons are that you cannot delete your higher level characters without imm intervention and you may change your mind without careful consideration of the death. In my experience you may come to regret the decision and generate apathy by going through an elaborate and personal funeral rp, then deciding not to die and just coming back suddenly. My advice is to apply, or seek an ic way to hold your belongings or dispose of your things within the rules and wait and see if you truly wish to end your character.

The kind of rp's that I personally enjoy are festivals and meetings of guilds or faiths. I make an effort to observe them when I can. Adventuring groups completing tasks together is also very enjoyable, as is idle discussion in an area. Various organizations having meetings and trails is also good examples. For me it is not so much about the desire for player driven rp, but certain elements of it. The important thing is to have fun, but don't think the only way to have fun is with huge mob inclusive rp, I find that small and intimate sessions works a bit better, but that does not mean in time there will not be larger rp, they just take time.

[Harroghty]

I tend to agree with Raona: I think that the immortals and administrators watch a good deal. They may not always appear in light and turn the world inside out, but if a group of players are having a grand time role-playing I am not sure we need them to.

Yes, I think in the long run it would be satisfying to see some kind of tangible product from role-play initiated by player characters. Most of the time though, you have a fun time just playing when you start to inject that kind of "in character spin" into a situation. If an immortal appears that's a "nice-to-have" (they are busy too and do a lot already).

Two good things could come from this thread the way I see it (certainly there are more):

1) Players can have a lot of fun on their own. Like I said earlier, Pascus created great fun for several of us with a little role-play the other day that rolled downhill and became larger. We would do well to follow his example, I think. (Sorry to mention IC things, Pascus, but you brought it on yourself by helping others have fun.)

2) Immortals can see that some tangible results would be appreciated and people want that. I'm not sure what will be done with that but it's food for thought and a note in their "good idea box". Let's not forget they don't always appear with a post on "Player Status" but have real lives also.

[Lathander]

I am a firm believer that we as players have the ability to do whatever we want within our power reach, some have stronger reaches than others but this reach could change the game and the world around.

I think this quote sums up the entire discussion. Everything beyond it is details. Let's look at it.

1.

players have the ability to do whatever we want within our power reach

Mostly. It depends on how you define "power." Most L50 PCs have the "power" to lay waste to certain areas of the game. This does not mean that laying waste to any given area should cause the area to be permanently removed. If someone were to clear out Howling Peaks, we wouldn't think of removing it from the game. Nor does having the "power" of a L50 ranger able to kill every mob in the orc camp mean that it could be done. There are many many more orcs there than the coded mobs - the same could be said of the elves in Ardeep.
2.

some have stronger reaches than others

I am glad this part of the statement follows. It helps to define "power" in the context of this discussion by implying that level and skill/spell ability are not the intended definition. Faith Managers have "power" as do others in such positions over guilds (e.g. Warden), organizations (e.g. Harper Leaders) and political/military forces (e.g. Zhentarim). I would not wish to see their "power" diminished by every player who thinks they have the right to affect world events on the same scale. The most "powerful" Tempurian fighter should not have the same influence in the world as the Tempurian high priest who interprets and executes the will of the Lord of Battles.
3.

but this reach could change the game and the world around.

In theory this is true. However, it would be unrealistic to expect the coding imms to alter areas of the game every time someone changed it - now it's a goblin village, now a human one, now there are great towers, now it's been burned to the ground, now it's been rebuilt. I think you can see the problem there. Just because we witness an event, doesn't mean we need to code a change. We do see a lot from our players, but it is also correct to state that we don't see everything. It is proposed that we get logs of rps that might warrant changing an area. Please don't do that. We aren't likely going to code something based on someone's log of an rp. From time to time we do change some areas instigated by player action and witnessed by imms: the flow of pc and npc dwarven metal was stopped, eventually it was renewed after several real months, Silverymoon was antagonistic toward Waterdeep and brought back from the brink of war, the arcane outside the old school of wonder has left this plane, a statue of a player character stands in Waterdeep, the Fellowship of the Undermountain has a home, the Burning Blades exist, a certain bell made its way to Shadowdale. In addition to this there are the events coordinated in the events forum: the Corellon meetings, the fighters events, a masquerade ball, the joust, etc.

This is the current process for doing the things I've read in this discussion. I think the current process is fine and should continue.
1. For rp that needs to happen between groups, post your times and set up the event using the event forum. I agree with whoever suggested that we should try to bring back the web calendar function.
2. For individual rps, setting them up outside of the game in order to coordinate times is fine. However, the less ooc scripting of these events the better.
3. Do not use otells for echo-type things. For example "otell X: you see people running away from something in the woods."
4. Any desired alteration to existing areas or addition of new areas should be submitted as an idea to the builders' address. Then, upon their approval, you can build the new or changed area.

[Pascus]

Thanks Oghma and Lath for putting up your views, along with all the other players. I feel that power isn't always being able to cast Insta Death spells, but also being able to pass measures in a city, or being able to imply a high tax on a certain good to cripple a city. These are the sort of things that bring about roleplay and show that you don't have to have "Code" strength but the mental and charismatic strength to do things. Another thing is how I feel is the quests are there for us to complete together but we shouldn't rely on them as our only methods of roleplay, we can always instigate fights between PC's and create intrigue in various ways without having to always bring the code into it. I guess that is what separates mud's from games like WoW is that the possibilities are endless. I think we have got great ideas from our admins as to help the rp and as Harroghty has done with the Joust, and also that awsome Tempurian Priest with his Tournament we all can step up and make events happen.

[Sairaven]

When I first created Quey, I had a vision for her. She would be a socialite thief, a courtesan. She would move between different political stages, manipulating her way to the shadows behind one throne or another.

Sadly, I learned this wasn't going to be the case.

I would love to see more political (and I mean nation vs nation) RP, personally.

[Travis]

Start making more of an effort to play evil characters consistently.

I guarantee plots will develop.

-this post is directed at you-