Crafted Weapons/Armor sales tag..

[Selveem]

I don't know if it's just because I'm not ridiculously high at mining, smelting, and weaponsmithing/armorsmithing, but it seems to me that crafted items sell for very little compared to their counterparts obtained via killing mobs.

For instance, a steel shield sold for 2 silver in the WD Market. You sell a normal shield and you often at least get a single gold.

I remember crafting used to be very lucrative but now my Dwarf cannot monetarily sustain himself without resorting to killing things again..

Is anyone else seeing this as well?

[Nysan]

More characters gained access to trade skills. I assume the value of crafted goods was reduce to prevent insta-rich characters, similar to how potions were disabled as sellable items. Thats just a guess mind you, but its the best one I could come up with. It is one of the factors that lead to Gilain's stance on resmelting crafted goods. *shrug*

[Selveem]

Hm, I guess I wouldn't feel the same about it if I were GM and almost always was able to mine/smelt/weaponsmith or armorsmith per attempt. I could see how that would be a wee bit anti-economy, but it definitely doesn't make sense to put all that work into stuff you crafted only to see it sell for less than tattered rags and crude armors made of leather..

[Nysan]

Umm, you do not get success every attempt at GM. There is still a failure chance, be it a smaller one considering your level, due to the stat check. That said, its a necessary evil. Definately would love to see crafted goods sell bettter to help out young folk's get a financial foothold. At the same time, as someone "on the back nine" (hey look, a golf term) on the trade level trip with Gilain... I definately understand the reasoning when considering goods like platemail.

Best advice, players pay better than NPCs. Not talking about low skill weapons/armour, I can't give away scalemail some trips... But even inept/amateur miners have a market these days with some of the "new" stuff around. (hint, hint)

[Selveem]

Not saying they should be multiple platinum.. Just saying at least a single gold would be nice. Selling all these shields I made for 2 silver each, if you think about it, is pretty damned insulting.

10 copper = 1 silver.
20 copper = 2 silver.

Selling even a copper shield for 2 silver is ridiculous. The metal alone is worth more than that.

[Nysan]

Not saying they should be multiple platinum.. Just saying at least a single gold would be nice. Selling all these shields I made for 2 silver each, if you think about it, is pretty damned insulting.

That draws back to the built-in problem of the current trades, making 1000 items no one wants and don't sell well to get level to something useful. Refresh my memory, can shields be resmelt? Haven't had a reason to make one in a while... If so, there's something. Not sure what you are working with, but resmelting those practice items and get friendly with the Gond folks can generate items other players would buy. That or get into the arrowhead business, I don't mind the competition.

[Selveem]

But you say it like it isn't a problem, when, logically speaking it is..

There's enough 'junk items' in the game that can't be sold or used for anything productive. I'm not talking about prop items like a walking stick, but gems, for instance, that have literally 0 value that just take up inventory space or clog up rooms where people leave them behind.

Yes, you can resmelt shields.

Yes, I do reuse most of them.

No, that doesn't help me attain more coin to survive off of.

What is the purpose of having a 'trade' (defined as: to buy and sell) if you can't sell the goods of it?

Yes, I'm aware that you can sell/trade manufactured weapons and smelted metals have uses, as well. But 'armorsmithing' is its own trade and should have a value associated as well.

[Nysan]

What gems? NPC gems? Yea, little use to me either outside of the odd jewelry crafting.
Mined gems? Every single one of them has a use; be it jewelry or spells... as they are or turned into 'gem powder' (yes, there is a way to do that).

As for selling, truth be told you got a long road of disappointment ahead of you sorry to say. Dispite having 6 trades, most of Gilain's coin does not come from selling weapons or armour but usually the raw ore, metals, gems, arrowheads, and spell components. NPC vendors do not pay well enough most of the time and players have little interest in amateur grade weapons or copper scale mail. *shrug* Granted, at the stage he is now, his sales are balancing out a bit because folks are more interested in the armour types he can make these days and his weapons are respectable.

Even at GM, I fully expect a large portion of his profit to still come from the basic items. Its the nature of the beast. People can get armour and weapons elsewhere, the quality may differ... but they have options. Metals, gems, arrowheads ect... no NPC sells them, can't loot them anywhere, no other means than the trade-folk characters out there. *shrug* Sorry if you expected to bank in coin soon as you got the trade, but it won't happen. Smithing has its benefits, but it is a flawed creature that will take from you many, many, many hours before you get anywhere respectable. And of course, MV points will own you.

[Selveem]

Now that I know everyone else is seeing the same thing, now comes the inevitable question:

Is it possible (please?) to have the value of those objects crafted raised slightly?

I'm not saying multiple platinum, but at least some electrum and gold.

[Nysan]

Now that I know everyone else is seeing the same thing, now comes the inevitable question:

Is it possible (please?) to have the value of those objects crafted raised slightly?

I'm not saying multiple platinum, but at least some electrum and gold.

I'm against it. But its strictly a personal opinion that trades were meant to generate player to player interaction (through trading goods) rather than give characters more stuff to sell to NPCs. But that idea is a hard one to fight for considering the "make 1000 and trash them" style we have at the moment. If we had trades that made stuff from the word go players desired, I would be louder.

Won't fight anyone's attempt to sway the imm folks however. A small increase in vendor prices would benefit alot of folks. I do fear that too much of a bump would lead to the "I made a dwarf to be insta-rich at level 10!" mindset or "I cannot afford to buy that" merchant echoes to pop up faster everywhere cause a few greedy folks went on a selling spree after crafting that 1000 'junk' trade items. Only takes a few bad apples you know.

[Selveem]

That's not going to stop me, nor any other players, from attempting to sell the goods.

The problem is two-fold. Any crafted armor of the same type (or may be even more broad, I can't verify til later tonight) lowers the cost of any other item you sell. For instance, if I sell my copper shield for 2 silver, I can sell my platinum shield now for 1 silver!

The second portion of that two-fold problem is that they already sell for next to nothing to begin with. If I want to sell to a single vendor for some form of currency, I get two silver? Well, then I guess I have to go all over the realms selling my 'junk equipment' as you call it only spamming up even more of those vendors' inventory and locking the vendors in so any others who attempted to sell to have to settle for even 1/2 of the normal, next-to-nothing price.

See what I mean?

I understand what you're saying, but in all honesty, a level 10 character can get LOADS of platinum through other in-game quests. I don't feel new characters should all go through the exact same routine just to have some coin to afford training. It gets rather trite and almost feels like quest abuse just to be able to train.

If skills and stats only cost a few gold to train, I'd be right there with you Nysan. The reality is that some cost over 3 platinum plus for spells/skills _and_ stats can cost exceeding 10 platinum some places. So, I don't understand why you would possibly be against it. It still provides low priced equipment for new adventurers if it's sold to merchants, it still provides _some_ income to those spending the months of actual hours of work it takes to improve crafting, and it allows players to enjoy a more unique method of earning coin than all their characters doing the exact same quests.

Again, I'd like to point out I repeatedly suggested I did not intend for these items to sell for even platinum, but at least gold.. some electrum. Something more than the measly silver that can't even buy you food or a hotel stay?

Even raising it to a single gold per piece is nothing. As I stated previously, as well, a bunch of garbage weapons and armor sell for more. What is the difference in players lugging around that and selling it all over to all the shopkeepers (which they already do) in a few minutes compared to the multiple hours spent making all the stuff to sell? How is even getting two gold per item going to 'ruin the economy' any more than those players already pedalling that stuff around that sells for more?

I suppose I understand your opinion, but I don't see a basis for your stance.

[Nysan]

Got me all wrong. I have no problems with a small raise in vendor-value for trade goods, especially considering the current necessity of crafting 1000 undesirable items to level. I worry about too much of a raise in value causing the mindset that a person could make a dwarf and make 1000 platinum by level 10 with zero player interaction, or any race really if you know where to learn certain trades.

You're think training money, I'm thinking greed money. Big difference.

[Nysan]

We're thinking in the same book, Selveem... just not on the same page.