[Trade] Fletching

[Erwyth]

Anyone else ever think it would be a good idea to create arrows in bulk, rather than one single arrow at a time? Just asking

[Glim]

Let me make 10 potions at the same time and you can make 10 arrows at the same time as well

Trades are, by their very nature, tedious. Without going into why, there really isn't a workaround for this, or at least one I cannot think of.

Also, do you really use that many arrows that you need to make many at once?

[Erwyth]

Yea.... I can use up around 100 - 200 in a single real day. Feraael uses a bow in melee combat so he literally "flies" through arrows. But I craft the arrows for RP purposes

How about lowering the "you are still fletching" thing? Instead of it lasting what like 1 real minute make it last like 10 - 15 seconds?

[Nysan]

Sorry, the delay stays. I feel for you on it though. Mining, smelting, woodworking, weaponsmithing, and armorsmithing have similar delays that work my nerves with Gilain (oddly, appraise doesn't... *shrug*). Still, I remember the days before the delay was put in and understand the reason for it. Haven't touched fletching in a while, is it really a 1 min delay? Mining and the bunch are closer to 15-20 second delays... though it can feel like longer at times.

[Caelnai]

Perhaps it's a sign from the Gods to spend more time fletching and less time twi*** in combat?

I always appreciated that fletching is portable and reasonable to do while RP-ing. Many hours have been "fletched" away in Ardeep's version of the quilting bee, as senior rangers teach you younger ones. Not sure I see the need for bulk manufacturing.

[Erwyth]

Perhaps it's a sign from the Gods to spend more time fletching and less time twi*** in combat?

I don't twink combat, or any other skill for that matter, except maybe fletching cuz I use so many arrows.

I understand, just felt like I had to ask as fletching is not a "money gainer" and in my opinion, since I will not allow my character to be self sufficient miner, smelter, blacksmither, woodworker, fletcher; it is a boost to the dwarven economy.

It may not be a minute long, I dunno.

[Jaenoic]

Haven't touched fletching in a while, is it really a 1 min delay? Mining and the bunch are closer to 15-20 second delays... though it can feel like longer at times.

[Nysan]

Very well put, Jaenoic. hehe

Don't drag dwarves into this. Everyone knows only a handful of the already few active dwarves make/sell arrowheads. Improving arrowhead demand won't do much to push the arrowhead supply up. Its nice to dream, but can't force a dwarf to make stuff or force a dwarf to do anything they don't want to really...hehe

[Keltorn]

Yea.... I can use up around 100 - 200 in a single real day. Feraael uses a bow in melee combat so he literally "flies" through arrows. But I craft the arrows for RP purposes

I'll go ahead and second this. Arrows go very fast. I mean, I can easily go through eighty on a single wyvern if given the chance (they usually rush me well before that). Given that a quiver is usually meant to carry around twenty arrows, it shocks me a bit that a single fight will likely take way more arrows than you could reasonably have on your person.

Let's not forget that just about every arrow you fire will break, so good luck getting even half of them back afterwards. And the fact that it takes so much trouble to get the supplies and it will likely end up costing you more to make your own than if you just bought them (even with a 100% success rate)... Fletching seems like it's just there for fun (and I do rather enjoy it), but it's not very practical for anyone that intends to use their bow.

Mind you, I don't have much experience with the other crafting trades, so I'm not sure if the situation is pretty much the same for, say, armor and weapon making. I just know that if you're not "bulk manufacturing," then you're not really planning on using your bow.

[Nysan]

My ranger experience is extremely dated, haven't had one since before the account system was put into place, so I need some refreshing. The materials are arrowhead, wood, feathers...right, anything else?

For now, I'll stick with those three. Feathers are free, find something to pluck. Wood, if you can't chop... its a low cost, especially if you know where the wood merchants are around the realms. Arrowheads are the only real cost and honestly, the cost of those can be greatly reduced if you simply maintain a good relationship with your smithy supplier. Friends don't overcharge friends, in my experience.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to put anyone down or knock the difficulties of any trade... just don't make it harder on yourself than you have to. Trades are annoying enough to work with without pushing up a hill you could be walking around. hehehe.

Final thought... are all quivers so limited in space? Was under the impression different quivers had different storage capacity like different packs/bags. If 20 is the arrow limit, definately would push for a revisit of current quivers or adding new ones with much larger storage space. Poor rangers should be able to belt more arrows than that.

[Caelnai]

-Quivers are available which hold far more than 20 arrows
-Pre-constructed arrows are available cheaply from several vendors
-I can name two in-game, active dwarves who have *bags* of arrowheads they have been trying to unload, not to mention a third available source.

Fletching has always been what I considered to be one of the most balanced, workable trades in the game. If anything, recent "over-eagerness" only inspires me to think we need to slow things down a bit.

[Erwyth]

I could buy my arrows, but where is the RP in that?

Feraael does not, always, shoot his bow like Keltorn does, so he is able to retrieve his arrows more often than not. BUT, they do degrade RAPIDLY.

So today I timed myself and created around 130 arrows in 2 hours. By that time, he filled BOTH of his quivers, yes he wears two, then started a party and went adventuring! Within 40 mins he was down to 30 arrows.

For someone who is playing a self sustaining, follower of Solonor, wielder of bow, I find it more than tedious to spend hours a day crafting arrows, thus I asked about an increase.

In my opinion, changing fletching to be able to craft bulk, or faster would not in ANY way effect the game negatively. In fact, it would leave me more time to role play.

And yes, I buy hundreds of arrowheads at a time from Gilain

Also I have posted many other topics on the subjects of bows, commands with bows, feats with bows, please check those out as well

[Horace]

How much do the arrows sell for?

If they don't sell for anything, there shouldn't be a problem with making ten at a time. Or introducing a quiver of endless arrows for the psychos like Feraael and Keltorn - I still can't believe you two use arrows that much.

The difference between potions and arrows, is that there is a major advantage to having a billion potions - using arrows for anything besides pulling (not an issue with arrow shortage) is a huge mechanical disadvantage done only for roleplaying purposes.

[Selveem]

I get what he's saying and honestly, he has a point.

This is a roleplay MUD. You have trades in game and he wants to be responsible in their usage to fulfill his RP.

Personally speaking, I truly respect that. Mechanically speaking, I feel for you.

I understand where you're coming from, though.

What you're asking for I don't think is too much, but I would agree that crafted arrows should have a much longer life than the stuff you buy from vendors. I don't think you should make them faster. I don't think you should make more at a time, but I do think they should at least be quality and last a bit better.

[Nysan]

There's an idea. Forget pushing for bulk crafting or lag reduction, they are not going anywhere. Instead push for arrows to last longer. Arrows taking damage less often would go along way for arrow users without treading on trades their built-in delays.

[Caelnai]

Improving quality is nice. Linked to skill-level perhaps? Currently, I pull about 80% of my arrows back out of anything I kill...but then again, I've been fletching longer than two weeks.

Maybe I'll go into the arrow business...

[Balek]

There's an idea. Forget pushing for bulk crafting or lag reduction, they are not going anywhere. Instead push for arrows to last longer. Arrows taking damage less often would go along way for arrow users without treading on trades their built-in delays.

With all due respect, I don't think it's your decision to make. Making blanket statements like this serves only to discourage people from posting their ideas. As far as I know, all ideas like this are taken into consideration.

From my perspective, I can't see any reason not to reduce lag or allow bulk creation of arrows. They don't sell for very much and there isn't any shortage of identical store-bought arrows. The primary reason to create your own arrows is for roleplaying purposes. You can create arrows that look different because of the wood or feathers and make yourself stand out a little. I don't see how it's more fun, balanced, or valuable to make people spend huge amounts of time making arrows.

Creation lag on things like armorsmithing, weaponsmithing and leatherworking make sense because the products of those trades sell for a lot of money and are useful for a much longer time than arrows. Adding a time penalty to the creation of those items serves to balance the cost to the smith against the value of the end product. Since fletching doesn't have a high value product, it doesn't seem necessary to make a player both acquire the materials and spend a great deal of time making the arrows.

[Caelnai]

With all due respect, I don't think it's your decision to make. Making blanket statements like this serves only to discourage people from posting their ideas.

Was that a "decision" or a "counter-opinion"? Seems to me opinions and criticism of them should be equally acceptable, no?

Arrows provide the means for a ranged attack, a skill that is critical and valued in many situations. Just like with any other trade, over the years, many rangers have RP'd countless hours of fletching to acquire a measure of competency at creating durable, high-quality arrows. Perhaps some tweaking is ok, but I'm just not convinced that the newest ranger's frustration with the process justifies a major change.

[Selveem]

Caelnai,

That doesn't mean that the player may not have a reason for his 'frustration' with the current system. The current system is frustrating to many people. You, Nysan, nor any other non-Imm player can speak for the Imm Staff or whether or not something 'should' be coded. We can all hope and suggest, but we can't force anyone to implement (or not implement for that matter) anything.

Counter-point all you want, but it shouldn't involve telling any players whether or not they should expect something implemented into the game.

[Caelnai]

Counter-point all you want, but it shouldn't involve telling any players whether or not they should expect something implemented into the game.

Sorry, but I didn't see that. Attempting to speak for the imms (if that happened) and being a self-appointed board admin are about equal in my book. They both seem to involve telling people to be quiet rather that responding to their substantive points.

The input on some of these ideas from long-term rangers is as valid as from the "fresh-eye". We have another perspective of the systems, seeing how the trade progresses through the lifetime of a PC and also remembering earlier ways things were implemented and why they were changed. I do not think arrows should be by-the-bunch, there are balancing concerns (as discussed above), and I know that some of the "problems" described are far-lessened when the trade skill-level is higher.

*sigh* A bit of an aside...I love that FK is so good about implementing player suggestions. However I know I don't enjoy commenting on these threads very much, even when I have a strong opinion or idea on something. There always seems to be too many "shut ups" instead of responding to the points. I've stayed away from the boards before just because I didn't have energy for the argument. Maybe that's common, but then again, I'm old so maybe it's just me.