[Trade] Fletching

[Erwyth]

Valid points on all accounts for the fletching trade. I agree with lowering the time delay or crafting bulk as I suggested earlier.

Feraael is only a journeyman and maybe this is his problem.... Though I doubt it. He can collect 100% of his arrows if using his bow in melee combat, though the arrows begin to take damage and degrade thus causing him to lose many. On top of the fact that "deflect arrow", degrades them further, though this is stated in another thread.

Having to roleplay arrow fletching is going to make him a GM in no time (un twinked). Though even at GM, how long will Feraael have to roleplay fletching just to fill his quivers? His adventures get longer and longer. . . Which is the reason I suggested bulk.

Perhaps bulk could be an option at GM? I mean honestly, who will roleplay their character fletching arrows, just to bulk sell their arrows? You earn no money from it.

[Nysan]

This certainly took an odd turn since I last looked at it...

Not once, anywhere, have I 'spoken for the imms' or had any delusion that my opinion mattters anymore than any other player. I appologize if anyone took the last post that way, wasn't intended that way in the slightest. Perhaps the comment was poorly written, yesterday was a tiring day and post wording was likely on the list of things that suffered from my lack of sleep. The last post was simply a suggestion. I felt improving arrow durability is a more likely implimented change than creation lag or bulk-crafting so I suggested backing that. *shrug*

Nothing I ever post is an attempt to tell people what to do. Suggestions, tips, oddly phased advice...certainly, but definately would not expect anyone to read anything I post, unless I quoted an imm or helpfile, as law or rules. I may be delusional in many aspects and talk to myself, but I'm not so far gone to think I have any position of power in FK.

Sorry if anyone was offended by my posts.

[Lathander]

I've read all the posts in this thread. At no point did I get the impression that anyone was speaking on behalf of myself or any other imm.

[Oghma]

Neither did I.

[Erwyth]

The real question is.... did you look at the suggestions!? *super big dumb looking grin* *nudges an IMM*

[Lathander]

I don't support the idea of bulk production based on my own experiences in game and I echo the thoughts of others in this thread who do not favor the idea.

I in no way admonish the person who suggested the idea. All suggestions are welcome. Just because I, another or all imms might disagree with the idea is no reason not to propose it in the first place.

I very much like the idea of handcuffing the quality and durability (dare I go so far as to suggest damage?) of player-produced arrows to one's fletching skill level.

[Erwyth]

I don't support the idea of bulk production based on my own experiences in game and I echo the thoughts of others in this thread who do not favor the idea.

I in no way admonish the person who suggested the idea. All suggestions are welcome. Just because I, another or all imms might disagree with the idea is no reason not to propose it in the first place.

I very much like the idea of handcuffing the quality and durability (dare I go so far as to suggest damage?) of player-produced arrows to one's fletching skill level.

OoOOOOoO That sounds good... But what does handcuffing mean? :p I think it means something good. Damage would be a neat bonus too, but I think that should be dependant upon the metal used in the fletching of the arrow?

[Nysan]

Unless I am drifting again, handcuff = higher you are in fletching trade, the longer your arrows last and more damage they do. Definately could see fletching effect arrow quality (quality seen via appraise trade) and thus the durability and damage of the arrow.

[Erwyth]

Unless I am drifting again, handcuff = higher you are in fletching trade, the longer your arrows last and more damage they do. Definately could see fletching effect arrow quality (quality seen via appraise trade) and thus the durability and damage of the arrow.

Ahh, ok thanks! I personally don't mind what happens to fletching I just wish something slightly beneficial comes about with it. Maybe the types of wood effects the durability, as well as the arrowheads, the feathers, etc etc. Causing you to spend more money to obtain better arrows (which would be well worth the coin spent). The above quote, lowering the time, bulk crafting, whatever.

I personally only want to use it to actually shoot my bow, more often. I think Keltorn would agree.

[Nysan]

Strongly against having arrowhead type impact fletching for one reason: Everyone would want mithril arrowheads. Rather keep that out of the equation and keep arrowhead trade open to more folks than just the end-game miners/weaponsmiths that can access mithril and craft arrowheads in decent amounts. I enjoy Gilain's arrowhead market, but I am completely against any change that would hurt up and coming smiths/merchants. I like competition and would hate to see arrowheads join weapons and armor in the "if its not xxx metal, I don't want to buy it" strangle-hold.

[Lathander]

1. "Handcuffing" = Sorry, it's a fantasy football term. Basically it means "tied to." So, I think arrow quality, durability and damage bonus (wishful idea) should be "tied to" a player's fletching skill level.

2. Just because I say I like it, doesn't mean it will be added. I'm just giving my opinion on the suggestions posted here. Others, who have their own priorities, will decide whether or not it is worth implementing.

3. Don't read "who have their own priorities" to mean that I am putting down those priorities. They priorities of builders and coders are PRIORITIES for a reason. Some things are more important than others.

[Glim]

Oh I wish crafting quality had a much bigger impact on items.

Unfortunately, D&D leaves alot to be desired as far as damage bonuses and the like can be done to correlate with quality of the maker. Right now, D20 strictly has really only two levels of craftsmanship, which is normal and masterwork.

The way masterworks is by item.
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
For armor - Such a well-made item functions like the normal version, except that its armor check penalty is lessened by 1.

The only other way to affect an item is being magically enchanting it or by making it out of a different material.

While I would LOVE to be able to make better crafted armor and weapons be able to give bonuses to damage or protection, I think it would have to be very delicately done. Magic items are meant to already be masterwork, so even a +1 item is finely crafted and then enchanted. So if we added damage bonuses to "masterwork" items, it would take away the point of a magical enhancement.

Sadly, D20 does not treat crafting very well and we are limiting ourselves in that respect by trying to be a largely D20 mud.

[Janon]

I don't think it's too slow. Giving any kind of bulk creation to younger rangers seems unfair to all us older ones who had to go about the hard way. It wasn't really that hard either. I've gained a lot of fletching experience when tutoring younger rangers, being chastised by high-minded druidesses and just spending quality wilderness time with Summer. I wouldn't trade those rp moments for fletching skill levels.

[Selveem]

It took me 8 years to GM Dual Wield on Selveem. Later, it was made easier.

I don't begrudge anyone for making it easier. I'm actually very happy about it.

That's just my take on the matter.

[Nysan]

FK changes. The whole "I did it this way, so they should" mindset is something I see in MMOs like Warcraft far too often. Its harmful. As long as the changes are balanced, it shouldn't matter. *shrug*

Still not supporting bulk-crafting. None of my characters are fletchers, but I would wager the amount of metal Gilain smelts regularly to feed his weapon/armorsmith matches most fletchers so I do understand the tedium of one by one working when you are aiming for 400-500. I have no problem with the time invested however. Course, I'm usually doing other things while I'm smelting... be it interacting with folks in the room, tell converations, reading helpfiles (error checks or refreshing memory), running a minimized screen of the forum in the corner, ect. *shrug* Staring at the screen, doing nothing but waiting for that echo that means you can hit the enter key again is a killer...

[Erwyth]

I don't think it's too slow. Giving any kind of bulk creation to younger rangers seems unfair to all us older ones who had to go about the hard way. It wasn't really that hard either. I've gained a lot of fletching experience when tutoring younger rangers, being chastised by high-minded druidesses and just spending quality wilderness time with Summer. I wouldn't trade those rp moments for fletching skill levels.

I also RP fletch, its fun! I enjoy it. My question to you is, without attempting to go out of the way, how often does/did your character use his bow? Then I ask, how long would it take you to empty a quiver of roughly 200?

With Fer's four attacks per round (since rapid shot doesen't seem to work) he definitly flies through the arrows Its the only reason I made a suggestion. I'm not suggesting bulk arrow creation for lower levels, that definitly does not seem feasible. Perhaps at master or grandmaster? Or even a better idea that JUST popped into my head. Lowering the time by mere seconds, to reflect your trade skill?

FK changes. The whole "I did it this way, so they should" mindset is something I see in MMOs like Warcraft far too often. Its harmful. As long as the changes are balanced, it shouldn't matter. *shrug*

Still not supporting bulk-crafting. None of my characters are fletchers, but I would wager the amount of metal Gilain smelts regularly to feed his weapon/armorsmith matches most fletchers so I do understand the tedium of one by one working when you are aiming for 400-500. I have no problem with the time invested however. Course, I'm usually doing other things while I'm smelting... be it interacting with folks in the room, tell converations, reading helpfiles (error checks or refreshing memory), running a minimized screen of the forum in the corner, ect. *shrug* Staring at the screen, doing nothing but waiting for that echo that means you can hit the enter key again is a killer...

I agree and I understand both of your points with the trade skills. As long as you can roleplay while performing your trade skill, leave it the way it is, no?

[Janon]

It took me 8 years to GM Dual Wield on Selveem.

It's taking me longer.

The whole "I did it this way, so they should" mindset is something I see in MMOs like Warcraft far too often. Its harmful.

Me too, almost always. My point referenced this instance only. My main argument is not "I did it this way, so they should," that is only my secondary point. My main argument is, having gone through the process myself I got all of the arrows I needed and never once felt that it was too slow. I thank the original poster for this topic because I enjoy reading all things rangerly, even if I don't post myself.

how often does/did your character use his bow?

In my case it is still "does" and not yet "did." I use arrows a lot. As anyone unfortunate enough to adventure with me and forced to suffer through my arrow-retrieval spam will attest. That's a different topic I think I saw someone post about. I do think fletch time is fine. I think arrow-retrieval is tedious.

Then I ask, how long would it take you to empty a quiver of roughly 200?

When the new weight and AC codes came in I noticed two things: 1.) 400 arrows in quiver weighs a lot, and 2.) Weighing a lot as a ranger really hurts your AC. I now carry 200 or less. I have not yet emptied the quiver. It is amazing, even when the shooter has a high skill, how many arrows an opponent can block if they have a certain feat. I can't honestly answer the question of how long it takes me to empty a quiver of 200 because I have yet to do that. Oh, did you mean "empty" as in "I just shot my last one at the mob" or as in "my last one just turned to scrap?" Either way, I have yet to do it, but am willing to test the former if my bow doesn't break first. For some reason, even using config +ranged in mele, my bow gets damaged much more often than I would like. I bet that my bow would break before all 200 arrows scrapped.

[Selveem]

For some reason, even using config +ranged in mele, my bow gets damaged much more often than I would like. I bet that my bow would break before all 200 arrows scrapped.

This is why Dwarves say Elves make shoddy weapons! *ducks*

[Erwyth]

Then I ask, how long would it take you to empty a quiver of roughly 200?

When the new weight and AC codes came in I noticed two things: 1.) 400 arrows in quiver weighs a lot, and 2.) Weighing a lot as a ranger really hurts your AC. I now carry 200 or less. I have not yet emptied the quiver. It is amazing, even when the shooter has a high skill, how many arrows an opponent can block if they have a certain feat. I can't honestly answer the question of how long it takes me to empty a quiver of 200 because I have yet to do that. Oh, did you mean "empty" as in "I just shot my last one at the mob" or as in "my last one just turned to scrap?" Either way, I have yet to do it, but am willing to test the former if my bow doesn't break first. For some reason, even using config +ranged in mele, my bow gets damaged much more often than I would like. I bet that my bow would break before all 200 arrows scrapped.

Weight: Yes, I empty everything on Feraael and he stays appropriately on "medium weight" with 400 arrows. He is very, very light though quite strong.

Deflect Arrows Topic: I also posted upon it and it is another thread entirely. Please show your support for archery.

Retrieving Arrows: Another topic I also created and wish to have implemented for the sake of everyone.

Emptying a Quiver: Feraael can destroy all 200 arrows in a matter of two real life hours, using a bow in melee combat, using the point blank shot feat, hence the reason for this thread.

A side note, if you read deflecting arrows topic, retrieve command, try reading my posts on precision, archery, rapid shot.

For some reason, even using config +ranged in mele, my bow gets damaged much more often than I would like. I bet that my bow would break before all 200 arrows scrapped.

This is why Dwarves say Elves make shoddy weapons! *ducks*

The reason Feraael learned woodworking as 27 platinum is quite expensive for a bow

[Nysan]

FK changes. The whole "I did it this way, so they should" mindset is something I see in MMOs like Warcraft far too often. Its harmful. As long as the changes are balanced, it shouldn't matter. *shrug*

Still not supporting bulk-crafting. None of my characters are fletchers, but I would wager the amount of metal Gilain smelts regularly to feed his weapon/armorsmith matches most fletchers so I do understand the tedium of one by one working when you are aiming for 400-500. I have no problem with the time invested however. Course, I'm usually doing other things while I'm smelting... be it interacting with folks in the room, tell converations, reading helpfiles (error checks or refreshing memory), running a minimized screen of the forum in the corner, ect. *shrug* Staring at the screen, doing nothing but waiting for that echo that means you can hit the enter key again is a killer...

I agree and I understand both of your points with the trade skills. As long as you can roleplay while performing your trade skill, leave it the way it is, no?

Right. Would I like to blow through that bag of 500 ore in a few seconds? Yea, sure.. however its not necessary. The process is as useful as the end result. Its only useful if you make use of it though. Talking to folks in the room, tells, ect, ect makes for a much more fullfilling day than spending 4+ hours tucked away somewhere waiting on the next lag echo. Its the whole "play your character" over "grind" enjoyment value. *shrug*

The whole "I did it this way, so they should" mindset is something I see in MMOs like Warcraft far too often. Its harmful.

Me too, almost always. My point referenced this instance only. My main argument is not "I did it this way, so they should," that is only my secondary point. My main argument is, having gone through the process myself I got all of the arrows I needed and never once felt that it was too slow. I thank the original poster for this topic because I enjoy reading all things rangerly, even if I don't post myself.

Wasn't targeting anyone specific with that comment, Janon. The thread felt like it was drifting down that road, so I tossed it out there. Alot of valid reasons against bulk crafting without bringing out that dead horse.

For some reason, even using config +ranged in mele, my bow gets damaged much more often than I would like. I bet that my bow would break before all 200 arrows scrapped.

This is why Dwarves say Elves make shoddy weapons! *ducks*

So true. Gilain's weapons don't break easy. hehehe