The role of thieves (rogues) in FK

[Alvirin]

Hi there

[Please avoid any reference to PvP]

Just another post so people can give their ideas on how to make this class somewhat more interesting to play, and how a thief player might enrich his RP and the RP of those which RP with, and also those perceived problems that this class might have.

Mind that when I mean thieves, I am really meaning the D&D "rogue" class, because there isn't anything wrong in RP a rogue as a thief if that is what you want, but that isn't the only way possible of RP a rogue (Thief class in FK)

The only unwelcome advice is the one not being told, so please share your insight!

[Liandria]

There are tons of different ways you can play a rogue class. It's not always necessary to find the darkest cowl, cloak and studded leathers you can and lurk in the shadows, though it is a possibility! To list a few:

Bandit/Thug, Smuggler, Spy, cat burglar, Cut purse/pickpocket, acrobat/entertainer/juggler/trickster/almost-bard, scout, Detective, watch-consultant (takes a thief to catch a thief), locksmith (not sure how realistic this is in fk), gambler, pirate.

So long as there is currency there will be those who seek to get it the "easy" way. And so long as people try the
easy way there will be those who have to stop them. The thief concept also includes other nimble professions. I'd say just about every FR faction from the Red Wizards of Thay, to the Waterdeep Watch, to the Zhentarim have hired on thieves of one sort or another at some point.

A thief is just as likely to be the man in silks bumping into you in the square, and borrowing a few coins, as the fellow dressed all in black leather scooting along the rooftops with a poisoned dagger. Or the fellow in the watch tunic who apprehends the fellow in silks because he knew exactly what that one was up to. Or maybe, the old man in the simple tradesman clothes carrying the set of lockpicks because Lord Piergeron locked himself out again.

The thief has the sneak and hide skills, but sometimes the best way to hide is in the open, by pretending like you don't have to hide.

Edit Removed Assassin concept from list

[Ramirus]

I especially like the watch-consultant role that Liandria mentioned, or in a term that I am more familiar with, thief-taker. I think the list she mentioned is not always completely explored, and are viable RP ways to play a rogue class character.

[Erwyth]

I liked the idea of the plant ability, in reference to steal, which someone else posted.

The above RP possibilities by Liandra are also great

[Isaldur]

Plant is already in game. You ever suddenly find your pockets stuffed with horse dung? Yeah, welcome to Waterdeep.

[Selveem]

I truly do miss the Harpers Role in FK.

It's cool that I've interacted with Harper mobs, but I miss there actually being Harpers in the game.

I know organizations are being reviewed, but the Zhentarim, Harpers, etc.. all really good things for Thieves.

[Alvirin]

Those have been very good suggestions, yet there should some code-backup in order to provide a full roguish experience, certainly you don't need it for a pure RP character like a con-artist, diplomat, merchant or beggar just to name a few, all can be roleplayed.

But those others that could greatly further RP like spies, scouts, investigators and so, aren't possible since a rogue is unable to detect a hiding rogue and a rogue will be always detected when a spellcaster wishes. cast 'true sight' --> all those rogues who might be hiding and all those that would enter the room for X minutes will be automatically detected with a success rate of 100%.

Is for that I propose a revamp of the "stealth system" in which those spells who can't detect hidden characters wouldn't (ie True sight), some that don't detect a character if he is hiding would do it now (ie Magic mirror) and those who reveal all those characters that are hidding in a single instant but no after the spell cast has casted, and in D&D do it would remain the same way (ie Faerie Fire)

Also a spot skill would be needed, all classes would have it, but it would be something special:

This skill could be trained by everyone up the way to GM, but it would have "special features",
assuming that all the classes have the skill at GM still would be differences.

Rogues would have use of their full score in spot no matter where they are.

Rangers and druids would have their full score in spot in places considered "wylds", but when elsewhere they would have a hidden penalty to their spot skill (not noticeable when typing score just hidden when doing the check)

Those classes who haven't spot skill in D&D would have it, but with a hidden penalty no matter where they are, this penalty would be likely higher than the druids/rangers for being in places not considered "Wylds".

Also a feat could be created that would reduce (just a bit) the hidden penalty of those classes that haven't spot as class skill but that it still such skill might be a must for them, ie: A fighter helmite watchman, a cleric of mask.

Personally I think that this would give much to FK, since it might bring in consideration stealth, and having measures against such (Like creating a lawful *thief* Tyran investigator ), and I would really like to help towards it if given the opportunity.

And thanks to you if you have managed to read so far

[Nysan]

Saw the scary word usually attached to thief that I just have to comment on...
Assassin does not mean walking player-killer. Do not wander down that path folks, FK will hurt you for it.

[Erwyth]

I have also thought that wizards were a bit over-powered in this regard as well. Though clerics also have the same possibilities I believe? Hidden characters with detect magic, still glow But IMO: I like it. The spot skill would be great for the game!

You can't roleplay an assassin who actually attempts to take out marks / hits for other characters?

Not to derail the thread and I do not an expect an answer, though I've been meaning to ask clearly about RP vs PVP vs PK

[Liandria]

Just because the code doesn't 100% support something doesn't mean the role can't be played. Calimport, Chult, The Rift and other places aren't fully coded yet, but PCs RP being from those locations. You just have to use some creativity. A NG thief could very well assist the watch. Sure he'll miss any PC's hiding unless they want to be caught. But he can still "PEEK" to those he can see, "trap" folks breaking into rooms, "detrap" traps set by malicious troublemakers, and point out exploding cookies before the watch devours the gift basket . There are also a few various items that give temporary true sight, which he could use. It's not EASY but it can be played. Perhaps at some point it might even be worked along side another IMM RP.

Being a thief requires a fair amount of Kismet, as with all the other kismet costing items in game, you should not expect it all on a silver platter and it should be played with care. Thieves in many cases are hard to play and rightfully so. The thief walks a very fine line no matter what side they position themselves on

I 100% agree with the player organizations being a positive force. To me it's a huge shame we don't have the Red Wizards as a possibility too! They are really really interesting to me. But that's more of a topic for the suggestions section of the boards.

Edit: Removed Assassin concept-thoughts

[Nysan]

Please do not take my prior post poorly. It was nothing against the proper playing of an assassin role. It was simply a warning to not confuse the FK accepted version of assassin with the waking PK event the name assassin is sometimes associated with.

[Glim]

I haven't seen much about it in the past year or so, back in the past FK has had a strict policy that you are NOT allowed to play an assassin whatsoever. Is that still the case?

[Liandria]

Strange I could have sworn there was a assassin school or guild in the game.

It would make sense that a specialty like that would be application only though, as that is really a RP that would require a lot of balancing. But its such a crucial part of politics in so many areas of FR. It promotes the concept of bodyguards for political figures, which promotes some RP just between those parties even if that figure is never targeted.

[Selveem]

I think it is very difficult for thieves to find their niche in FK. They're pretty fragile, they can't talk their way out of things, and don't have access (that I've seen) to many enchanted leathers.

I play my thief as a merchant currently, but he's a man of many faces (and 'trades'). Merchant is a very good profession for a thief.


Also, "Assassin" has a very bad stigma attached to it.

The very mention of the word breathes discomfort and caution to many players that I have seen thus far. Most often, it is related to the fear of PVP with minimal RP.

Nysan's response is not an uncommon one.

I thought I would just point that out.

With that being said, I would also like to apply for a position on the Watch as a thief so I may make a Dexter-like assassin!

[Oghma]

As there has been nothing posted or reported to the contrary, it can probably be summarized that we do not welcome the creation of assassin player characters or will welcome a class like assassins. Any guild or area holding assassins mobiles is not an excuse to create an assassin, rather the builder has chosen to add a mobile that can be identified as an assassin.

My opinion:

I'd rather see the refilling of thief and rogue clubs and associations before any effort at all is put into filling a brotherhood of assassins. Currently we will not accept any applications to rp as an assassin either.