"Useless" Feats

[Lerytha]

Before beginning this thread, I need to establish a few very clear ground-rules, otherwise it will not progress far at all, and will not do anything. a) this is not about class vs class, so don't compare two classes or three classes or seventy-eight different classes. b) this is also not an excuse to rant at the system, just to make a few points if there are any to be made

Right, the question.

Are there any feats people think are not useful? Any that cost too much? Any that don't do what they're meant to do? Any that you think the benefits for do not outweigh the cost? Basically, this way we can all discuss possible solutions to specific feats (and discuss if solutions are even needed!). And if any imm reads this, they can have a ready-made list of possible things to "fix".

Just another word about format, because I can see this thread getting very busy if people get interested in it. Could people highlight what feat they're talking about in every post. So, before any post you make, put "RE: linguist", then when you have finished discussing that in your post, and you have another to discuss, put "RE: penetration" or whatever. I'm not being a control-freak in this, its just I don't want this thread to degenerate into a) chaos or b) the good old "class war"

[Horace]

It's impossible to know without seeing the mechanics.

Skill focus, spell focus, or any other feat that just bumps a skill/spells level is useless. Since this game is based on using a skill/spell to make it better, and not on resource allocation, it's incredibly short sighted to use a feat on something that can be trained up in a couple hours.

I question whether toughness properly represents the 3 hp in pnp - but it's just speculation.

Cleave - Great Cleave: the feats have value in pen and paper because hp is so low compared to FK. in FK the feats are only useful when you're fighting rats and have no chance of danger anyway. Read it this way, it gives you an extra attack every 3 hits in pnp - in FK it gives you an extra attack every 10 (totally made up example)

Any feats effecting demand/request commands

Endurance - it means almost nothing once you're past level 30, make it a huge difference and it /might/ be worth it

Combat is so long for fighters in fk, that I only really see weapon specialization/expertise/i*crit as having any lasting contribution to the mechanics. Toughness as well, but I'm still uncertain if it's portioned correctly. The feats that I find most "worth it" are the feats that immediately grant you an ability to do something you weren't able to before, I trust these feats because I can see the change...with the vast majority of feats you could test all day long and have a hard time telling which is does or doesn't have the feat you're testing.

Packrat/Linguist as being examples of feats I can prove change

On my casters, I won't ever spend a feat on something that makes my spells last longer - since this is a game where repetition determines your ability...it's seems incredibly counter productive to me. And the logistics of using meta-magic feats alone is daunting enough that I'd rather just hump not using them at all and put my feats into something that doesn't make me want to cry. I don't regret not learning metamagic feats - it makes gameplay much simpler.

[Duranamir]

I am going to immediaetly disagree about the meta-magic feats. I use them on pretty much all my casters and while they do add complexity they also add options that can be life saving. Still spell, silent spell for example. And what is not to love about twin spell ? and to a lesser extent Maximize etc. As far as duration influencing feats i do use them as it is a lot better to have an extended shield running through a whole adventure rather than having to worry about re-casting in combat.

Duranamir

[Erwyth]

I do not believe that the feat, Rapid Shot actually works. I have tested this in PvP and PvM combat.

"With this feat you can use ranged weapons with exceptional speed. You get an extra attack off per round with your ranged weapon.

This feat requires knowledge of the ranged weapon in question such as bows, crossbows and slings. It also requires a high dexterity and a knowledge of the point blank shot skill."

This is NOT true. In the cases where my second attack skill fails, I only fire once. At MINIMUM the character should fire twice. After that second attack, the following skills should come into play, second, third and fourth attack. For a total of FIVE attacks with a ranged weapon.

I question improved initiative, though I have been told it is a work in progress.

As well as, precise shot, only because I noticed no difference after I took the feat.

I have also stated on another thread, that deflect arrows is by far over powered and is on *every* mob in the game. In PnP version the rules are as follows:

"You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn't count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons, such as boulders hurled by giants, and ranged attacks generated by spell effects, such as Melf's acid arrow, can't be deflected. "

Because it can deflect ONCE per combat round, it is not overpowering. But when I initiate combat and for two solid rounds my entire arsenal is deflected...

Far Shot seems to be worthless, because one can fire an extra tile away. Yet people do not do not roleplay the delay in the distance. Nor do the mobs care.

[Glim]

I would agree with Duranamir, metamagic feats are very useful and I use them on nearly all my casters. If you don't use them, you are missing out. Extend and maximize spell works wonders. Quicken spell is also very good. Still and silent spell are excellent for RP.

I do not think there are any useless feats, as far as I have encountered. Yes, they might not all work to make your character as powerful as others, but they all are there as options for a certain characters RP and they can add flavor to that RP. I think people forget that sometimes.

Also, as far as toughness is concerned, unless it has been changed, it should give you the equivalent of an extra level's HP, which is far better than the three that it does in D20.

[Horace]

if that is true - then it's the most powerful feat in the game

[Selveem]

Could that be checked? Gedras has it trained ALL the way up. I didn't notice a significant difference that I remembered, but maybe I'm wrong.