Weapon size changes & dwarves

[Dalvyn]

Two important changes were made yesterday, that might affect area building.

#1. Dwarves were made medium-sized.

That means that their equipment now needs to be SIZE_MEDIUM.

#2. Weapon sizes.

Up to yesterday, the mud used a complex system based on the 3.0 version of the rules. We switched to the 3.5 version, which can be described as follows: The SIZE_* of a weapon should be the size of the expected wielder.

That means that, if you make a dagger, or a short sword, or a long sword, or a greatsword, or a club, or anything for humans, it should be SIZE_MEDIUM. If you make a short sword, long sword, ... or anything else for a gnome, it should be SIZE_SMALL. If you make a weapon for an ogre, it should be SIZE_LARGE.

A few "behind the scene" notes ...

• A weapon of SIZE_MEDIUM will have standard damage. For a long sword for example, it means 1d8 (plus modifiers from the wielder's strength, magic, skill, and so on). If the weapon is smaller/bigger, the base damage will change accordingly. A SIZE_LARGE long sword (made for an ogre) will do 2d6 damage (plus modifiers); while a SIZE_SMALL long sword (made for a gnome) will do 1d6 damage.
  
  Actually, the 2d6 damage corresponds to the normal damage for a SIZE_MEDIUM greatswords; and the 1d6 damage corresponds to the normal damage for a SIZE_MEDIUM short sword. In other words, a SIZE_LARGE (ogre) long sword works like a SIZE_MEDIUM (human) greatsword, and a SIZE_SMALL (gnome) long sword works like a SIZE_MEDIUM (human) short sword.
• For a given character, a weapon can fall in one of three categories: it can be light, one-handed, or two-handed.
  • What does it do? A two-handed weapon ... is a weapon that you need 2 hands to hold. You need only one hand to hold a one-handed weapon or a light weapon. The difference between one-handed weapon and light weapon is related mostly to feats and dual-wielding. The feat Weapon Finesse for example allows you to use your Dexterity instead of your Strength to determine whether you hit an opponent (instead of forcing your way through his armour with your Strength, you feint and aim precisely with your Dexterity) ... but it only works with light weapons [and special weapons like the rapier]: you can't really do that with a heavier weapon. When you fight with two weapons, you also incur some penalties ... those penalties are reduced (a lot) if your secondary weapon is a light weapon.
  • What are they for humans? Let's first assume we talk only about human-sized (SIZE_MEDIUM) weapons.
    
    • The light weapons are the very small and light weapons: daggers, light hammers, sickles, handaxes, short swords, saps, ...
    • The one-handed weapons are the small but not so light weapons: clubs, morningstars, battleaxes, flails, longswords, rapiers, scimitars, warhammers, ...
    • The two-handed weapons are the larger weapons: spears, quarterstaves, falchions, greataxes, greatclubs, greatswords, guisarmes, halberds, scythes, ...
  • What about using weapons of another size? With some limits, you can use weapons made for creatures of another size. For example, a human will be able to wield an ogre-size shortsword (it will more or less be a long sword to the human), or even an ogre-sized longsword (which will be a two-handed greatsword to the human), but the human won't be able to use a weapon like an ogre-sized greatsword, that the ogre already has to wield 2-handed.
    
    The rule is relatively simple ... when the weapon is made for a wielder which is one category bigger/smaller than you (tiny <-> small <-> medium <-> large <-> huge <-> gargantuan), then the weapon type changes one category for you (light <-> one-handed <-> two-handed). For example, an ogre-sized (SIZE_LARGE) club is a one-handed weapon ... for a human, who is SIZE_MEDIUM (so, 1 category smaller), it will be a two-handed weapon. For a gnome, who is SIZE_SMALL (so, 2 categories smaller), it will be BIGGER than a two-handed weapon ... which means that the gnome simply won't be able to use it. Similarly, a gnome-sized (SIZE_SMALL) spear is a two-handed weapon for gnomes ... for a human, who is SIZE_MEDIUM, it will be a one-handed weapon ... for an ogre, who is SIZE_LARGE, it will be a light weapon ... and a giant, who is SIZE_HUGE, won't be able to wield it in battle, because it's simply too small!

QUIZZ !

(Feel free to answer one question below ... but not more than one, so others can play too !)

1. I'm building a dwarven fort and making weapons for the guards there. What SIZE_* should be the battleaxe? And is it held 1-handed or 2-handed?

2. What size should I use for the elite guards' steel boots?

3. The dwarven fort is attacked by kobolds (SIZE_SMALL) wielding makeshift daggers and halberds that they crafted themselves. What size should I use for those daggers? And the flails? And are they held 1-handed or 2-handed?

4. What size should I use for the kobold hide armour?

5. The kobolds are led by an evil ogre (SIZE_LARGE) carrying a scimitar that his ogre mummy (who was a blacksmith) made for him. What size should the scimitar be? Will the ogre hold it 1-handed or 2-handed?

6. One of the kobolds is very lazy and didn't tidy up his room. The ogre decides to make an example of him and eats him. He then gets the kobold's dagger and halberd. Will he be able to use the dagger? If so, how (one-handed or two-handed)?

7. Will he be able to use the halberd? If so, how (one-handed or two-handed)?

8. The kobolds managed to steal the battleaxe of one of the dwarven guards. Will Meepo the kobold be able to use it? How?

9. Ouch! The evil ogre found out that the kobolds had stolen a battleaxe. After eating Meepo, he decides to try to use the weapon. Can he wield it in combat? How?

10. Victory! While the ogre was busy toying with the battleaxe, the dwarves managed to kill all the kobolds! Will they be able to use their daggers? How?

11. What about their halberds? How?

12. And what about the ogre's rapier?

13. But no luck! A kobold survivor managed to flee with the ogre's rapier right before the dwarves invaded their camp. Will Meepo's brother, Keepo, be able to use the ogre's rapier? How?

[Lathander]

Dalvyn,

You might consider posting some version of this information to the general populace so that the weapons questions that are pouring in might be abated all in one shot. Your explanation made sense to me. I would stress the gameplay reasoning in your post; particularly the part that it is being done to match 3.5. I find that giving a reason for our actions helps cut back on the complaining and it would be better to do that sooner rather than later.

It is a good thing that weapons can be resized AND have their damage adjusted accordingly. That way, those who claim to use a particular weapon for RP purposes can make that decision. Is it really for the rp and they are willing to take the reduced damage, or will they expect larger damage from their reduced weapon and complain when it isn't there? I suspect it will show the mindset of several players.

[Vibius]

1) SIZE_MEDIUM, one-handed.

[Dalvyn]

Ah, finally! Someone answers! Come on ... you CAN make it!

[Moloch]

3.) SIZE_SMALL (both), One-handed

[Larethiel]

2) SIZE_MEDIUM...I hope.

[Horace]

every weapon size is size medium for the race it was created for - then you have to do the size changes once it moves hands.

Kobolds are small - his halberd is medium
Ogres are large - an ogre halberd is medium for him as well

If a kobold halberd is wielded by a human, a human is medium sized and could wield it in one hand. If the ogre takes that same halberd, he is size large and would be able to wield that halberd in his off hand as a light weapon.

I think

[Dalvyn]

3.) SIZE_SMALL (both), One-handed

The dagger would be one-handed, but the halberd would be two-handed (like human halberds held by humans).

every weapon size is size medium for the race it was created for - then you have to do the size changes once it moves hands.

Kobolds are small - his halberd is medium
Ogres are large - an ogre halberd is medium for him as well

If a kobold halberd is wielded by a human, a human is medium sized and could wield it in one hand. If the ogre takes that same halberd, he is size large and would be able to wield that halberd in his off hand as a light weapon.

I think

Actually, "medium" is better used only for the size. A weapon that is your size (whether you are a kobold, an ogre, or a human) falls in the standard category for you. That is, a halberd is a weapon that you hold with 2 hands if it is the right size for you.

Your answers are correct though:

kobolds are small, a kobold halberd is SIZE_SMALL, and since humans are SIZE_MEDIUM (one category bigger than kobolds), the small kobold halberd (that kobolds hold with 2 hands) is a 1-handed weapon for humans. For ogres, we move one category further ... and thus, the kobold halberd becomes a light weapon.

Note that light weapon can be used 1-handed (with a shield for example) or as an off-hand weapon.

[Moloch]

3.) SIZE_SMALL (both), One-handed

The dagger would be one-handed, but the halberd would be two-handed (like human halberds held by humans).

I was actually only answering the actual questions that were asked, dagger and flail, but you are right..I overlooked halberd.

[Dalvyn]

Correct. Not sure why I typed "flails" when I meant "halberds".

[Harroghty]

My area currently has humans with SIZE_MEDIUM halberds being held one-handed by humans. It's not a big deal to change this, but it's working fine right now. Is it a loophole or a function of the testport?

[Dalvyn]

Are those halberds loaded in resets (that is, already equipped)? If so, you might want to check the WEAR_ flag you used in those resets. You might have used WEAR_RIGHT_HAND (or whatever the flag is) instead of WEAR_BOTH_HANDS there perhaps?

[Harroghty]

No, I do currently have the wear flag for the right hand but I went to check it before I changed it to both hands and they were wielding right handed. Should I just go ahead and change it to both hands then?

[Dalvyn]

Yes, in your E reset lines, you should set them to WEAR_BOTH_HANDS.

What you set in the description of the item shouldn't matter much I think ... the best option would be to use CAN_WEAR_HOLD|CAN_WEAR_BOTH|CAN_WEAR_TAKE, so you cover up all options, but I believe that the game automatically adds missing wear flags in object descriptions anyway.

[Harroghty]

Roger, thanks for the clarification. I'll make those changes later today.

[Glim]

Looked like fun, so:

6. One of the kobolds is very lazy and didn't tidy up his room. The ogre decides to make an example of him and eats him. He then gets the kobold's dagger and halberd. Will he be able to use the dagger? If so, how (one-handed or two-handed)?

Since a dagger is a light weapon for a kobold, he wouldn't be able to. Nor would a human, for that matter, if my thinking is correct. Explanation:

A small sized dagger is a light weapon for a small character.
It is a one handed weapon for a tiny character. (Two handed for whatever is below tiny)
It is one weapon category too small for a human.
It is two weapon categories too small for an ogre.

Is that correct?

[Dalvyn]

Correct !